Speed Goats in Washington

[canyelk48]

Took a trip through S. Dakota, WY and MT last April and after losing count of the numbers of Antelope I saw I got to wondering why WA doesn't have any speed goats?  The terrain in Central WA appears to be ideal habitat for them; maybe it's time to transplant some to WA.

[billythekidrock]

At my son's hunter ed class they said that there are some in WA, just not huntable numbers. 

[saylean]

At my son's hunter ed class they said that there are some in WA, just not huntable numbers. 

I've heard that there are some too. I would think they would flourish in the Palouse area.

[runamuk]

weren't there some planted on the base in yakima?  I've seen about 2 ever one was roadkill and the other was all alone in a field of cows...we were in a part of Oregon and Idaho where there supposedly are lots  

[PolarBear]

I heard from a WDFW officer that there are a few on the Hanford and Yakima rez, but only a handful.

[bobcat]

This is good reading:


http://www.working4wildlife.com/Pronghorn_Antelope_Reintroduction.htm

[agchawk]

  There was a prior re-introduction years ago but they were unable to sustain numbers. I know there is an article out there somewhere on it. I'll see if I can find it and paste the link.

[agchawk]

 Here you go. Apparently it all started way back in the 1930s.

http://www.campusecology.wsu.edu/page_045.htm

[steen]

It would be really cool to hunt them in our own state instead of going outside to shoot one.  I'm sure poaching will be the biggest problem reintroducing them back, unfortunetly.

[Bob33]

I doubt there are more than a handful if any in Washington.  I've spent hundreds of hours in places like the Yakima Training Center. I have never seen one, seen any sign, nor heard of anyone seeing one. They are my favorite big game animal, so I am always looking and asking.  Pronghorn are active during the day, are easy to spot at long distances, and live in open terrain.

Naturally just because I haven't seen any, nor heard of any being seen does not prove they aren't here, but if there are any more than a very scattered few, I think there would be more credible sighting reports.

There have been a few efforts to reintroduce them.  Safari Club had plans to do so a few years ago but got frustrated with delays in Olympia.
http://www.seattlepi.com/getaways/390312_pronghorn04.html
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2008/11/15/384860/state-looks-at-reintroducing-pronghorn.html

[carpsniperg2]

they were supposed to be bringing some more over here and releasing them i think there might have been a tread on here i kinda remember it

[WDFW-SUX]

there are some on the hanford reach.

[benhuntin]

I heard they put them in the training center back in the day and the military boys shot them out

[Elkstuffer]

There was a fairly good number of them on the YTC back in the 50's. They were wipped out by the military.

The Central Washington chapter of SCI spearheaded a reintrodution into the state 2 years ago. WDFW was on board at first. After they backed out SCI went to the Yakama tribe and they were all for it.
There would already be 100 pronghorn on the ground but the lack of weather hampered the capturing of them. They are coming from an area outside of Winnimucca NV. They needed more snow than they had for a safe capture. Then it got too late into the winter and they were worried about fawn survival. They will try again this winter.

[rb2506]

At my son's hunter ed class they said that there are some in WA, just not huntable numbers. 

My mom said she saw some west of Spokane (I thought she was crazy but maybe she was right, right kind of country)

[benhuntin]

That'll be ONE more tag for 15000 of us to put in for. :chuckle:Just think how much money the state could make on one tag 6.50x15000=$97,500

[Bob33]

there are some on the hanford reach.

Have you heard of any recent sightings? It seems like ideal country.

They don't list pronghorn here, but that doesn't prove they aren't there: http://www.fws.gov/hanfordreach/documents/mammal-list.pdf

[WDFW-SUX]

If they were smart they would go kidnap a goat out Wyoming and then let it go on the YTC and have a draw for it. $$$$$$

No nothing recent but the rumors are persistent.

[rb2506]

  thinking the samething I'm in

That'll be ONE more tag for 15000 of us to put in for. :chuckle:Just think how much money the state could make on one tag 6.50x15000=$97,500

[Bob33]

If they were smart they would go kidnap a goat out Wyoming and then let it go on the YTC and have a draw for it. $$$$$$

Don't give them any more bad ideas...

[WDFW-SUX]

If they were smart they would go kidnap a goat out Wyoming and then let it go on the YTC and have a draw for it. $$$$$$

Don't give them any more bad ideas...

The sick thing is we all would line up and apply for the next 50 years..

Hell I bet they could get a goat on ebay.

[benhuntin]

There would have to be a whole new catergoryin the forum Antelope Hunting.  All for one tag.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

Actually it would be a money maker... Youth Buck, Youth Doe, Quality buck, Buck, 65 and over buck, 65 and over doe, disabled buck/doe, *censored* they might come up with walk in tags, bike in tags, road hunting tags.
Add all that up for an antelope. The WDFW might want to rethink this.

[KillerMiller]

R. Lee Lyman1, Department of Anthropology, 107 Swallow Hall, University of Missouri-Columbia, Columbia, Maryland
65211
The Holocene History of Pronghorn (Antilocapra americana) in Eastern
Washington State
Abstract
Historical documents are ambiguous regarding the presence/absence and distribution of pronghorn (Antilocapra americana) in
eastern Washington State. Paleozoological (archaeological and paleontological) data indicate pronghorn were present there during
most of the last 10,000 years, and available samples imply the boundaries of pronghorn distribution coincided with the modern
distribution of shrub-steppe habitats. There is no evidence of temporal fluctuation in the abundance of pronghorn that cannot be
explained by sampling error. Pronghorn were abundant relative to wapiti (Cervus elaphus) at the mouth of the Snake River but
rare near the Washington–Idaho border. Pronghorn were never abundant relative to other ungulates, but were occasionally sufficiently
numerous to form herds that were taken communally by groups of prehistoric hunters. Pronghorn were present but rare
in the nineteenth century and did not persist into the twentieth century.

http://faculty.missouri.edu/~lymanr/pdfs/2007Pronghorn.pdf

Interesting read.

[Bob33]

Actually it would be a money maker... Youth Buck, Youth Doe, Quality buck, Buck, 65 and over buck, 65 and over doe, disabled buck/doe, *censored* they might come up with walk in tags, bike in tags, road hunting tags.
Add all that up for an antelope. The WDFW might want to rethink this.

Young Buck, Old Buck, Healthy Buck, Sick Buck, Dead Buck, Close Buck, Far Buck, Illegal Alien Buck, Fast Buck, Slow Buck, One Buck, Two Bucks, Five Bucks, Ten Bucks, Skinny Buck, Fat Buck, Ugly Buck...

Where is Dr. Seuss when we need him?

[Caretaker]

This brings up an interesting question, assuming there are a few here, WA Big Game reg's do not list them as a game animal does that mean they are free to hunt?  Take Buffalo, they are not listed either, can we hunt them assuming there are free roaming?  If they are not listed as game animals does WDFW assume they are domesticated like cows?

[Bob33]

Antelope are considered big game in Washington.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.08.030
RCW 77.08.030
"Big game" defined. 

As used in this title or rules of the commission, "big game" means the following species:




Scientific Name Common Name
 
Cervus canadensis elk or wapiti
Odocoileus hemionus blacktail deer or mule deer
Odocoileus virginianus whitetail deer
Alces americana moose
Oreamnos americanus mountain goat
Rangifer caribou caribou
Ovis canadensis mountain sheep
Antilocapra americana pronghorn antelope
Felis concolor cougar or mountain lion
Euarctos americana black bear
Ursus horribilis grizzly bear

[bobcat]

I believe bison are classified as livestock.

[Bob33]

Right.  Bison, like cattle can be hunted as far as WDFW is concerned.  The owners may have a problem with it. 

[bobcat]

The owners may have a problem with it. 

                       

[gasman]

Right.  Bison, like cattle can be hunted as far as WDFW is concerned.  The owners may have a problem with it. 

So, the cattle left in the National Forest are legal to hunt if they are not removed when they are supose to be?

[canyelk48]

Right.  Bison, like cattle can be hunted as far as WDFW is concerned.  The owners may have a problem with it. 

So, the cattle left in the National Forest are legal to hunt if they are not removed when they are supose to be?

Hmmm, interesting thought; wonder how that would pan out if I arrowed a T-bone steak, lol.

[Bob33]

Right.  Bison, like cattle can be hunted as far as WDFW is concerned.  The owners may have a problem with it. 

So, the cattle left in the National Forest are legal to hunt if they are not removed when they are supose to be?

Legal in what sense?  There is no game law against it.  There is no game law against shooting a dog, either: same concept.

[Shootmoore]

Right.  Bison, like cattle can be hunted as far as WDFW is concerned.  The owners may have a problem with it. 

So, the cattle left in the National Forest are legal to hunt if they are not removed when they are supose to be?

Legal in what sense?  There is no game law against it.  There is no game law against shooting a dog, either: same concept.

It would fall under Theft of Livestock.

RCW 9A.56.083
Theft of livestock in the second degree. 

(1) A person who commits what would otherwise be theft of livestock in the first degree but without intent to sell or exchange, and for the person's own use only, is guilty of theft of livestock in the second degree.

     (2) Theft of livestock in the second degree is a class C felony.


It was a capital offense punishible by hanging to steal a horse in Washington State up till the early 1970's when the law was re-written.  A class C felony is punishible up to 10 years in prison.

Shootmoore

[gasman]

How long would a cow left behind by th erancher have to be abandonded to not be considered live stock.

I have ran across cows in the NF in the late archery season (Dec).

If they are required to have the cattle out of teh NF and do not, would that be considered abondonment? Especially when they are required to have them out by early Oct.

Dont mean to thread jack just curious about this. I could have filled my freezer a few times with the amount of cattle i have seen left behind 

[carpsniperg2]

i am not going to get into this one as well been in to many back and forwards topics but i have heard that some indian reservations have the right to shoot the cattle that get in there if they are not out by a certain time frame. we have always run on our own pasture so i do not know first hand but they are supposed to be able to shoot them but who know just thought i would throw that in the mix i don't know one way or another

[Hangfire]

In 1974 I saw the head of a pronhorn in the freezer at the former Yakima Trout Hatchery, by the Yakima airport.  As I was told by a hatchery employee, it was seized by a wildlife agent, from a deer hunter, who thought he had shot a 2 point deer.  The wildlife agents used to keep seized evidence in fish hatchery freezers. It was probably a 10 inch buck.

I read some where in the past 5 years, there is supposed to be a very small group of pronghorn in the soap lake area.I was told or read, that there was a plan to put pronghorn in the Moses Lk. area, years ago, the irrigation project ruined that.

Two weeks ago while traveling through the Columbia gorge on the Oregon side,  on high way 84. I told my wife that most of our relatives and friends that regularly travel that road, have at one time or another seen a pronghorn. We have traveled it a lot since 1976 and never seen one. Within 30 seconds she said theres one.  It was about 250 yards from the road, between mile marker 144 and 145.  She took a picture of it, which I don't know how to load on here. It appeared to be a 10-12 inch buck, decent prongs and heavy from the prong down.

[colockumelk]

There was a fairly good number of them on the YTC back in the 50's. They were wipped out by the military.

The Central Washington chapter of SCI spearheaded a reintrodution into the state 2 years ago. WDFW was on board at first. After they backed out SCI went to the Yakama tribe and they were all for it.
There would already be 100 pronghorn on the ground but the lack of weather hampered the capturing of them. They are coming from an area outside of Winnimucca NV. They needed more snow than they had for a safe capture. Then it got too late into the winter and they were worried about fawn survival. They will try again this winter.

Is the SCI that stupid.  Within two years they will all have been shot.  That tribe isn't really known for its proper game managment.  Not trying to point fingers but that would be like replanting some Marijuana plants in the back yard of a Frat House.  It's be smoked as fast as you could plant them.

[Pathfinder101]

There was a fairly good number of them on the YTC back in the 50's. They were wipped out by the military.

The Central Washington chapter of SCI spearheaded a reintrodution into the state 2 years ago. WDFW was on board at first. After they backed out SCI went to the Yakama tribe and they were all for it.
There would already be 100 pronghorn on the ground but the lack of weather hampered the capturing of them. They are coming from an area outside of Winnimucca NV. They needed more snow than they had for a safe capture. Then it got too late into the winter and they were worried about fawn survival. They will try again this winter.

Is the SCI that stupid.  Within two years they will all have been shot.  That tribe isn't really known for its proper game managment.  Not trying to point fingers but that would be like replanting some Marijuana plants in the back yard of a Frat House.  It's be smoked as fast as you could plant them.

good point Colockum

Actually, I think YTC would be the ideal place for them.  You could control access and poaching a lot easier than anyplace else, and you wouldn't have to worry about the ranchers and farmers pitching a fit (at least until they overpopulate and spill out of the training area...

[colockumelk]

I agree pathfinder YTC would be the perfect place for antelope for. He reasons you just listed. Oh well! SCI will learn the hard way: )