Special Hunt Permit points

[Pathfinder101]

Unless I am confused (which wouldn't be the first time BTW), "preference points" means that a percentage of the tags go to the applicants in the pool with the "most points" (like what I was talking about in WY).  It only works in states where there are enough tags to "clean out" the max points pool every year (or at least nearly clean it out). 
Someone who knows better can chime in, maybe I misunderstand the concept...

Yes, but I don't agree with the part where in ONLY works in states where there are enough tags to "clean out" the max points pool every year (or at least nearly clean it out).  

I wasn't talking about OIL Tags (I thought we were talking about deer tags).  What I meant by "works", is that you can "know" what year you are going to be drawn (or pretty close).  

[bobcat]

I wasn't talking about OIL Tags (I thought we were talking about deer tags).  What I meant by "works", is that you can "know" what year you are going to be drawn (or pretty close). 

Yes but what good would it be to know that you would draw in 87 years, knowing that you will be dead by then?   

I think if we were to have a preference point system, we would have to eliminate general seasons in order to increase permits by a large amount so that a preference point system could work. Otherwise, the number of applicants is just too high for the number of permits available.

[Bob33]

Preference point system don't always guarantee when you will draw either.  There is something called "point creep".  It is happening in quite a few of the states with preference points.

Here's how it works, using Oregon as an example.  Six years ago it took six points to draw a Snake River elk tag.   Let's assume there were 20 tags, and 20 applicants with six points: all would draw. 

That means if you started applying six years ago you could plan to draw in 2010, right?  It didn't work that way. More and more applicants have decided to apply for that area, and many of them already had points from applying.   So now you have 30 applicants with maximum points, so not all will draw.  The 10 that don't will get bumped into 2011 when they'll have seven points, making odds of drawing next year harder as well.  Furthermore, the word gets out that the Snake River unit is "hot", so even more jump into the pool.

This is happening in Colorado and other states. 

Going to a preference point system for OIL tags, and even some of the most desirable deer and elk tags essentially means that unless you are already at or within a point of two of maximum, you will never draw in your lifetime. Look at the Desert deer permits: 15 for 4500 applicants.  If they give away 15 to the applicants with the most points, it might work for a year or two but in a few years you will have the 10 point group (over 300) coming through fighting for 15 permits.  Then what happens?

[Romulus]

The only way to get better in a state like Washington is to make people give up something to get something. Change the fee structure for special permits and make you pick one species. Since we have points for multiple species when a guy picks his species all his points go to that species draw so no one can complain they lost points they have been accruing for years. Tweek the fees so the state has virtually no reduction in revenue and include anterless etc. Make the application fees something like $125 for sheep, goat, moose  $100 for trophy elk, $75 for trophy deer $5 for antlerless deer/elk. Also charge a premium for the tag once you draw. Have this separate from general seasons. If you want to put in for special permits you give up some of the general seasons like they used to for elk. If we did all that we could get decent draw odds guys who truly are willing to sacrifice would draw more permits and guys would also have less competition in the general seasons. It could be win win for everyone. People just like to pretend they have a chance and many like the cheap $6 app that dilutes the odds. It might take a year or two to figure out where the fees need to be based on demand but it would not be that hard. And dont tell me guys can't afford $100 for a chance. Every coffee stand still has a line every day for $4 cups of coffee. If you really want it everyone can afford it. Most just want it all without sacrifice.

[benhuntin]

The only way to get better in a state like Washington is to make people give up something to get something. Change the fee structure for special permits and make you pick one species. Since we have points for multiple species when a guy picks his species all his points go to that species draw so no one can complain they lost points they have been accruing for years. Tweek the fees so the state has virtually no reduction in revenue and include anterless etc. Make the application fees something like $125 for sheep, goat, moose  $100 for trophy elk, $75 for trophy deer $5 for antlerless deer/elk. Also charge a premium for the tag once you draw. Have this separate from general seasons. If you want to put in for special permits you give up some of the general seasons like they used to for elk. If we did all that we could get decent draw odds guys who truly are willing to sacrifice would draw more permits and guys would also have less competition in the general seasons. It could be win win for everyone. People just like to pretend they have a chance and many like the cheap $6 app that dilutes the odds. It might take a year or two to figure out where the fees need to be based on demand but it would not be that hard. And dont tell me guys can't afford $100 for a chance. Every coffee stand still has a line every day for $4 cups of coffee. If you really want it everyone can afford it. Most just want it all without sacrifice.

Your theory, of a guy should be able to aford $100 is B.S. You say it in your own statement "the odds would be better" how would they be better if you are not excluding people.  Those who can afford to do it always say, anyone can aford it, but there are guys that simply CAN'T.  I think washington has the best system for being fair for everyone.  If you want to spend more money to get better odds buy raffle tickets or go out of state if you think that will help you.  Hell if you are that big of a baller go on a fully guided hunt and you can hunt whatever you want.

[Romulus]

I disagree. How many $6 applications did you submit. The odds would be better because everyone would not be able to apply for everything. I am sure I could find lots of ways for you to save enough to put in for one special permit application rather than all like it is now. You would have to choose. If you are happy hunting for meat it would be less expensive. The mentality that you can afford to spend $6 on virtually no chance every year but cant afford to spend more for a better chance is the same mentality that people have who say they dont make enough money to save any yet buy lotto tickets. What does a guided hunt have to do with anything? I want a better chance to draw tags in my state and get tired of guys who draw a great tag because it was cheap to put in and barely give the hunt justice. I am willing to give up some things for a better chance at others. People who truly like the current system do not even understand it!

[benhuntin]

You can disagree all you want but you are wrong.  I can afford to do what you are wanting to but I know alot of people who cant, and believe it or not they should be able to draw a tag to.  So are you telling me that you only bought one or two permits so that there would be less in the pool, probably not. I am a trophy hunter and would love to draw a great tag every year, but it is not going to happen, sorry you will have to try to get a deer durring regular season.  Well good luck on the draw if we draw moose tags we will both love the system

[Romulus]

It will only be you! I did not even waste the $6 to put in for moose or goats even though I have 14 pts for each because I feel it is a waste of money. If you had to pick only one species to put in for and all of your points went towards it and it cost a little more to do it what would you pick? It would be a hard choice but you might get a couple good tags in your life instead of one if you are lucky! Good luck in the draw!

[bobcat]

I'll tell you what is a complete waste of money and that is the antlerless moose permits. Way too few permits for the number of applicants, especially when many of those applicants have 15 points or close to it. Another money waster is the mountain goat permits. I think raffle tickets are a better value in some cases.

[H2Ofuzz]

It will only be you! I did not even waste the $6 to put in for moose or goats even though I have 14 pts for each because I feel it is a waste of money. If you had to pick only one species to put in for and all of your points went towards it and it cost a little more to do it what would you pick? It would be a hard choice but you might get a couple good tags in your life instead of one if you are lucky! Good luck in the draw!

You have 14pts and did not put in this year??? WOW that is all i can say. 

[270Shooter]

I wouldn't be putting in for permits if they each cost 100 bucks 

[Bob33]

You have 14pts and did not put in this year??? WOW that is all i can say. 

Why wow?  Look at the odds of drawing a mountain goat permit, even with 14 points. 
[smg id=9475]

[benhuntin]

Wow, simply because he has gone 14 years and now gives up.  But look at the odds on your graphic  14 points=== 1/150  10 points===1/411 ill take the 14 points in a minute that is how the system is supposed to work better odds for more years putting in.  It is not the states fault there is millions of people in the state and alot want to hunt.

[bobcat]

Or with 13 points... 1/66 odds

So we have:

14 points = 1 in 150
13 points = 1 in 66
10 points = 1 in 411

[benhuntin]

How about 15 and 16   0 for 14   Sucks to be them