Cub Survival Odds

[h20hunter]

All right, trying to take the high road here but I'm chiming back in on my own thread. Idiot? I'm an idiot for asking questions based on interest in understanding as much of my surroundings as possible? For wanted to engage in discussion with those that have more experience than me? For wanting to be vocal and open with my own ideas, concerns, and opinions with other hunters? Where in the hell do you get off calling somebody an idiot for asking a simple question in the quest for opinions and experiences from those in his/her peer group with more experience than him.

Am I going to shoot a bear with cubs simply because I asked the question? Are you so noble as to judge my ethics simply because I asked a question that involves a touchy subject?

Screw you. I have chatted and had a great experience with this whole forum until you came along with your *censored* post.

Thanks so far to everyone else for their insight and opinions.

If this thread has blown up then lock it down. I'm okay with that and screw the troll that posts once and then doesn't even try and contribute.

Sorry, just had to get that out there.

[runamuk]

h20 that is why I tried to simply answer the question and not offer up opinion on PERSONAL ethics.  Read up a bit on bears reproductive cycle and maturity..... then do the best you can out there, if you shoot sow by accident (and this happens with no baiting or dogs) the survival odds will depend on the size of the cubs. 

Iread up more on this after a run in with a cub never saw his momma or heard her but after some research based on my estimate of his size he probably had already been kicked to the curb he was awful cute hanging up in that tree watching me (all 70-80lbs of him) but I was really worried about his momma so didn't take pics or anything else.  I now have a little better idea of relative size and independence.

I figure everyone has to start somewhere and if we spend enough time digging we can find a reason to never shoot so at some point we have to make the decision to kill....and really only you can determine what you are willing to live with (this isn't just hunting its in life).

happy hunting and good luck out there.

[h20hunter]

Thank you Muck. The whole reason I joined the forum not to long ago was to learn from others that know more than I do. I try and read up, listen to others, then use what I have gleaned to strengthen my own opinions or change ones that I am wrong about. I get a little fired up when people can't have discussions without being a *censored*. So far he is my first less than good experience. I have so far gotten good advice, a few hunting leads, a few future hunting partners, and lots of good advice.

Thanks for the good luck wish and topic support. Happy hunting and be safe.

H20Hunter

[Kain]

Dont worry about the troll.  I am glad you have been bringing up these topic for discussion.  It is not always as clear as everyone makes it sound and it is good to have a serious soul search before you hit the woods.  You could have a nice sow come in with a cub that is almost as big as her and have to make the decision very quickly in the heat of the moment.  Maybe you can remember back to this discussion and it might help you decide which way to go.


Here is a video to watch.  I bet 90% of us would have shot the bear in the beginning of this video.  Pause the video at 55 seconds and decide what you would do, then watch the rest.  
A Guide's Life 6.05.2010 - Day two at Bear Camp.mp4

If you have a bear in front of you that is just not acting normal or little aggressive there might be a good chance there is a cub up a tree.  A lot of the videos I have watched show a sow send her cubs up a tree while she goes on to eat.  You could end up watching a sow for an hour and decide she is alone with no idea she actually had cubs.  The best we can do is try our hardest to do the right thing with the methods THEY give us.

[h20hunter]

Wow, when that thing huffed I (not being a seasoned guide) would have shouldered the gun and popped it and notched my tag. Then, when it climbed the tree and see that little cub way up there, didn't see that coming. Amazing. I guess when you roll up on a bear you just never know if it is aggressive or not. When bait is involved I would imagine the bear could be more aggressive than usual. Throw in bait and a cub, no way. I'll let the guides do the baiting (where legal) and I'll do the shooting.

[Kain]

I dont think baiting had anything to do with that bear being aggressive.   It was just not willing to leave its cub.  I think this video shows how GOOD baiting can be for hunting bears.  Those guys were in no hurry to notch a tag and had plenty of time to discover the cub.  If you are on the wet side of Washington you know that IF you see a bear it will most likely only be glimpses for a limited time.  Not always a lot of time to determine sow or boar, size, cubs....

[Big w]

The word idiot may of been a harsh word, but i get tired of all the " shoot first, ask questions later" hunters out there. I am a hunter and I am not a troll, it just makes me mad when a guy says he would have a hard time controlling himself, cause he gets all worked up about his first animal. Sounds like a guy i used to hunt with, his rifle would be unloaded on an animal before i even seen it. Sorry to get everyone riled up but i really don't care what you think about me and my "ethics".

[runamuk]

h20 bears huff and stuff  that cub I ran across bawled bloody freaking murder its one thing to hear that on youtube entirely another in real life less than 50yards away unexpected. 

I am also on the search for my first bear and on the wetside where the issue of dense cover is always there, and making a mistake on a sow with a cub could happen.....talking about it and putting thought into it is a good thing...admitting you get really excited is also not a bad thing plenty of people do but never admit it for fear of being judged  .....

I have taken to usually just asking people in private about questions where ethics/opinions can be differing and get really heated when people take things the wrong way or not how maybe intended.

 I think its good you are asking plus then Kain finds cool bear videos as examples and such    I have learned a lot about a creature that used to absolutely terrify me now they fascinate me.

Of course as yet I am not a real hunter simply a girl

[Bigshooter]

I have been lucky enough to have passed up 20-30 bears in my life, been lucky enough to have hunted bears in washington with bait before the ban, been lucking enogh to have hunted with hounds.  And I have killed one bear.  Is killing a sow with cubs against the law? No.  Would I do it? No.  Do I have a problem with someone else doing it? No.  Would I hunt with hounds without collars on them?  Hell no.  Have a buddy that has paid $10,000 for some of his hounds.    Is hunting with bait or hounds really hunting?  Hell yes.  To many people nock these types of hunts without ever trying it.  Hound hunting is one of the hardest hunts you will ever go on.  Hound hunters are some of the tuffest people you will ever meet.  There is no way that I could be a houndsman.  I'm to much of a puss.  Everybody has a point of view.  All of them are right to someone.  All are wrong to someone.  So don't get mad at someone's opion, and post your own expecting everyone to agree with you.

[h2ofowlr]

It would be nice if they allowed baiting again in this state.  I can remember how effective it was.  It made for good quality bear hunting and it allowed you to size up the bears very well.  This also kept those from incedentially shooting a Sauw with a cub.