Gutless method for deer and elk. Anyone know for sure if it's legal?

[DoubleJ]

This is still a pretty big gray area for me.  I have asked WDFW and gotten no answer.  Does anyone know for 110% certanty that this is a legal practice in Washington?

[boneaddict]

I'm not sure if peeing behind a pine tree in the woods is legal or not.  I'm sure some would say its indecent exposure or a health hazard, while others wouldn't even bat an eye.


I don't see why not if you get most of the meat.  I don't like the method for the accute lack thereof of tenderloins/tender nuggets.

Some wouldn't strip the rib meat like they should.

[NWBREW]

I wouldn't know why not.   As long as you take all the meat possible with proof of sex (OF THE ANIMAL THAT IS   ) attached in some way I would think it was legal.

[jackelope]

I don't think it's an issue of whether the actual practice is legal...I think it comes more of an issue of wasting meat. Get as much meat as possible, don't do a sloppy job of it and you should be good to go. It's the meat wasting that will get you in trouble.
I personally would take the rib meat and the neck meat(all 1 piece with the cape and head).

[bobcat]

Boning a deer in the field is no different than boning it out at home. You have to do it at one time or another. I will get the same amount of meat off it either way. It's definitely legal. Otherwise, how do people get their deer out of the woods? Of course there are different degrees of boning out a deer. I don't usually bone out a deer completely. But I will break it down into the two hind quarters, the shoulders, the back strap, and whatever meat I can get off the ribs and the neck (which isn't much.) So I leave the rib cage, the backbone, the neck, and the head in the woods. I prefer to leave the bone in the hind quarters, and the shoulders. With an elk I would be much more likely to completely bone in out in the field, especially if I have to pack it uphill.

Either way, it doesn't matter, it's legal any way you do it, as long as you leave evidence of sex attached to a portion of the meat.

[washingtonmuley]

I'm not sure if peeing behind a pine tree in the woods is legal or not.  I'm sure some would say its indecent exposure or a health hazard, while others wouldn't even bat an eye.


I don't see why not if you get most of the meat.  I don't like the method for the accute lack thereof of tenderloins/tender nuggets.

Some wouldn't strip the rib meat like they should.

Bone,
You can reach in between the ribs and remove the tenderloins. I have done this on several animals in alaska when boning out animals were your only choice and the gutless method being the best in my opinion.

[ridgefire]

thats all we do now is the gutless method. anyone that says you waste any meat doing it this way has probably never done it or didnt want all the meat. there is no difference in getting the meat off a elk or deer whether it has its guts in it or it doesnt, you can still get all the rib meat and the tenderloins as well as all the other meat.

[bigtex]

I don't think it's an issue of whether the actual practice is legal...I think it comes more of an issue of wasting meat. Get as much meat as possible, don't do a sloppy job of it and you should be good to go. It's the meat wasting that will get you in trouble.
I personally would take the rib meat and the neck meat(all 1 piece with the cape and head).

 

[DoubleJ]

Just didn't know if I ran into a game warden and he asked "What's in the bags?" and I showed him if I'd get into trouble.  I've had guides telling me I couldn't do this because of legal reasons and that I had to gut and drag or at least gut, quarter, and drag.

[couesbitten]

Haven't gutted an animal in about 10 or 12 years, never lost a tenderloin, and never once had anyone question my method (course I've never seen the Warden either). The only meat that gets left behind is the blood shot stuff.

[Elknut1]

 Gutless is 100% legal, the only step eliminated is the "gutting" there is no meat loss! Everything else that one would do to break down a critter is exactly the same!

  ElkNut1

[ICEMAN]

Gutless Method:

Wouldn't leaving the heart and liver be considered wasteage?

It is in my book. 

[PA BEN]

So, if the head isn't attached to the largest portion of meat then the pecker or nuts. Those are the first to go to get them away from the meat.

. Transporting Wildlife:
You must transport any big game animal with
the proper tag attached. The properly validated
tag must remain with the meat until it is eaten
(including cold storage).
If quartered, the tag should remain with the carcass
or largest portion of the carcass. If you need to
take the head to a taxidermist and the meat to
be processed, you can complete a taxidermy
ledger or invoice, providing information outlined
under "Possession and Use of Wildlife" for the
taxidermist, and keep the tag with the meat at the
processor.
The tag should remain attached to the hide of a
bear or cougar until it is tanned.
3. Evidence of Animal's Sex:
It is illegal to possess or transport big game
animals unless evidence of the animal's sex is left
naturally attached to the carcass until the carcass
is processed or stored for consumption. Evidence
of sex means:
Male - head with antlers or horns attached or
penis or testes naturally attached to at least
one quarter of the carcass or to the largest
portion of meat.
Female - the head or udder must be
naturally attached to at least one quarter of
the carcass or to the largest portion of meat.
Big game taken in antler or horn restriction areas:
The head or skull plate, with both horns or both
antlers naturally attached, must accompany the
carcass while in transit or in possession.
The feathered heads of game birds must be
attached to the carcass when they are in your
possession in the field or are being transported.

[Elknut1]

 No, heart & liver are organs & not needed to meet requirements. Personally I am not fond of organs! (grin) On top of that you do not need to gut an animal to retrieve either one!

  ElkNut1

[PA BEN]

I just watched that video and in my opinion there is to much meat left behind. Not illegal, just a lot of burger meat left. Also, if you want to cape your elk you need to make different cuts on the hide.

[boneaddict]

I'll have to try that rib thing for the tenderloins.   I still gut my deer.  It takes me literally less than 5 minutes.  I think I've done gutless on one bull and one moose.   

We've all been there Miles.

[Kent Hunter]

I'm with Bone (Doug) on this one.

[Hunter Dug]

You can also just remover a few ribs if needed to get the tender nuggets. As far as the heart and liver, after removing the front shoulders you can cut a hole in the front of the chest to retrieve these items.  To me if you do not take these items you are wasting.  But your right it is not illegal to leave these items behind. I will buy a twin sized sheet and carry it in my pack, lay it out like a cutting table, and bone out completely keeps every thing clean. Bag it, Hang it, and then go brag about it.  ( get help I mean. )  Unless you can drive you rig to it LEGAL this is the only way to go.

[PA BEN]

All but the liver, witch I forgot to take. 482 lbs of meat.

[Atroxus]

So, if the head isn't attached to the largest portion of meat then the pecker or nuts. Those are the first to go to get them away from the meat.

. Transporting Wildlife:
You must transport any big game animal with
the proper tag attached. The properly validated
tag must remain with the meat until it is eaten
(including cold storage).
If quartered, the tag should remain with the carcass
or largest portion of the carcass. If you need to
take the head to a taxidermist and the meat to
be processed, you can complete a taxidermy
ledger or invoice, providing information outlined
under "Possession and Use of Wildlife" for the
taxidermist, and keep the tag with the meat at the
processor.
The tag should remain attached to the hide of a
bear or cougar until it is tanned.
3. Evidence of Animal's Sex:
It is illegal to possess or transport big game
animals unless evidence of the animal's sex is left
naturally attached to the carcass until the carcass
is processed or stored for consumption. Evidence
of sex means:
Male - head with antlers or horns attached or
penis or testes naturally attached to at least
one quarter of the carcass or to the largest
portion of meat.
Female - the head or udder must be
naturally attached to at least one quarter of
the carcass or to the largest portion of meat.
Big game taken in antler or horn restriction areas:
The head or skull plate, with both horns or both
antlers naturally attached, must accompany the
carcass while in transit or in possession.
The feathered heads of game birds must be
attached to the carcass when they are in your
possession in the field or are being transported.

I am curious how you bone out the hindquarters and still leave proof of sex attached? I just can't seem to wrap my head around that, could just be that I have never field dressed yet. It seems to me from the videos I have seen on field dressing that the best bet would be to bone everything out up to the front shoulders then leave one front shoulder/cape/neck/head as one unit so the head would then be attached to the one intact quarter. Course this is just speculation from a newby who has only seen pictures and videos so far. Anyone know of a video that shows an animal being boned out in the field? I have seen the pictorial on this site, but several of the pictures either don't load for me or are so close in that I am not sure what I am looking at since I don't have any prior experience hands on.

[PA BEN]

Just skin one hind leg all the way and leave the nut sack w/a patch of hide on the other leg.
There's a thread w/a video on this gutless method.

[ridgefire]

not sure what video is being watched but the elk we have done im pretty sure the scavengers were pretty dissapointed when they found the kills after we got done with the gutless method. elk burger is to good to be leaving any behind besides the little bit that has to much blood in it to be good.

[Atroxus]

Just skin one hind leg all the way and leave the nut sack w/a patch of hide on the other leg.
There's a thread w/a video on this gutless method.

Cool, I did a search and found the video you mentioned. It is awesome. Thanks. 

[Axle]

I don't like the method for the accute lack thereof of tenderloins/tender nuggets.

Some wouldn't strip the rib meat like they should.

OK Bone, look at my deer in this tutorial and tell me you can see tenderloins at the end and I will give you all the tenderloins I get from now on. And the rib meat is a piece of cake too but some won't take it regardless.

[Axle]

Oops, sorry, forgot to post the link.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,37569.0.html

[Axle]

Wouldn't leaving the heart and liver be considered wasteage?

Heart and liver are easily accessible.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,37569.0.html

Look at the pictures. I always take the heart. Only the liver if I find somebody that will eat it.

[Axle]

You can reach in between the ribs and remove the tenderloins.

The tenderloins are not behind ribs. They are farther back. Once the hind leg and back straps are off, the tenderloins are easily accessible.

[Axle]

I just watched that video and in my opinion there is to much meat left behind.

That video posted on this forum is lousy. It shows nothing at all except a front and hind leg being taken off. My granddaughter could probably do that without explanation but everyone who looked at it went nuts over it (except me). There is nothing on it that is much good as far as instruction.

Remember folks, the gutless method isn't new. It is real easy and the only way I have been doing it for over 20 years. Even if you guess, I'm sure you can figure it out in the field.

[PA BEN]

There is three videos, they show the whole job. BTW, I hope you boned out that deer for the video, front yard bucks are for gutting and hanging and cutting up later.

[Axle]

There is three videos, they show the whole job.

I didn't see the other two. Didn't mean to rip anyone who did a good job. I thought the first one was it. Guess I'd better go find the other two.

[DoubleJ]

There is three videos, they show the whole job.

I didn't see the other two. Didn't mean to rip anyone who did a good job. I thought the first one was it. Guess I'd better go find the other two.

He doesn't show pulling the organs or rib meat but, I choose to believe he felt this was elementary.  I have frequented Cory's website for awhile and I just don't see him as the kind of guy that would leave that kind of meat behind.  When you watch all the videos though, it does give you a better picture of what he's doing.

[Axle]

Yikes!!!!!

I just watched the second (and last) video. Somebody call the game warden! They wasted all the rib meat, all the meat on the outside of the stomach, and who knows what else. I would bet that the state they are in requires "all" the meat to be taken.

I seriously doubt they turned it over 'again' to get that meat. They would've taken it off before turning it over on the dirt.

They also should've de-boned the legs. It only takes a couple minutes on the hind and a few minutes on a front leg. Why pack out the bone when you go that far?

It was a good start but there is certainly room for a game warden to write a fat one on that animal. Responsibility to get all the meat should be number one. Not just convenience.

Maybe I'm just being picky though.

[DoubleJ]

Cory has stated that he leaves the bone in the leg to use as kind of a natural pack frame to help tie it all up.

[Axle]

Cory has stated that he leaves the bone in the leg to use as kind of a natural pack frame to help tie it all up.

When he gets older and more worn out, he will leave bone behind. (one of them anyway)  

Glad to see a video that gets this method out there. I've been trying to tell and teach friends for 20 years how to do this.

[bullcanyon]

So does that mean the head has to stay attached to a chunk of meat or can you get away with breaking it down to the upper part of the head only?  Like say for a european mount?  Trying to picture ourselves not risking a ticket when we are packing meat a long ways I always figured worst case scenario. I'd take the gamie back to the kill site and let him verify the sex.  Probably wouldn't work out well for us though.

[PA BEN]

So does that mean the head has to stay attached to a chunk of meat or can you get away with breaking it down to the upper part of the head only?  Like say for a european mount?  Trying to picture ourselves not risking a ticket when we are packing meat a long ways I always figured worst case scenario. I'd take the gamie back to the kill site and let him verify the sex.  Probably wouldn't work out well for us though.

Male - head with antlers or horns attached or
penis or testes naturally attached to at least
one quarter of the carcass or to the largest
portion of meat.

[ridgefire]

we just leave a little bit of the hair from the scrotum attached to the hind quarter figure thats proof enough of sex

[bullcanyon]

They way that is written is still confusing.  To me it means you can't cut the antlers off the skull.  You aren't going to pack out a full elk head, neck, and front quarter. Easy enough about the penis attatched to a chunk of meat.  Think I'll call them today and have them confer with their lawyer and find out what he means.

[PA BEN]

Look at all the OR's, it's one or the others.

[bullcanyon]

Just spoke with wdfw and we're legal as long as the horns are attatched to skull. So trim down like a european mount. He said no need to attatch organ to meat if i don't saw horns off.

[pods8]

Alaska fish and wildlife have a video out on this too, in such they take off the bulk of the meat gutless but then opt to open the gut sack to get to the tenderloins & organs.  However the loins can be gotten from the backside w/o opening the guts from the front.  Rib strips can be fillet out w/o opening the guts up as long as you are conscious of where the diaphragm is and not cut into it, then by kicking a couple ribs to the side you can access the heart from the side of the carcass.  As with any tips/tricks on things you don't have to use one resource 100% of the way, all the various videos out there you can gleen little things from and evolve the way you choose to do it.  $15 for a hard copy: http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/index.cfm?adfg=pubs.video

They list it as viewable online as well but I can't get it to work, someone else may have better luck with it online(EDIT GOT IT TO WORK!):
Main page http://www.multimedia.adfg.alaska.gov/#video
Direct link: http://www.multimedia.adfg.alaska.gov:8080/WildlifeConservation/biggame.wmv

[grundy53]

Yikes!!!!!

I just watched the second (and last) video. Somebody call the game warden! They wasted all the rib meat, all the meat on the outside of the stomach, and who knows what else. I would bet that the state they are in requires "all" the meat to be taken.

I seriously doubt they turned it over 'again' to get that meat. They would've taken it off before turning it over on the dirt.

They also should've de-boned the legs. It only takes a couple minutes on the hind and a few minutes on a front leg. Why pack out the bone when you go that far?

It was a good start but there is certainly room for a game warden to write a fat one on that animal. Responsibility to get all the meat should be number one. Not just convenience.

Maybe I'm just being picky though.

Not necessarily. Their are states such as Idaho that don't require you to take the rib meat. I still do. But just saying it depends on which state you are in whether you are required to or not.