Recurve help

[CanvasGear]

Ok I bought cheap take down recurve on line at Three Rivers. I dont have it yet but would like some advice on anything else I will need to set it up. It does have a Berger insert and comes with nothing except the string if that makes a difference. I need arrows and anything else required. I bought this mainly to try traditional archery and to shoot grouse. I do have a compound but have never as much as picked up a traditional bow.

Thanks for any help
CG

[carpsniperg2]

you will need a good stringer. some bows will come with them some will not. do not use the step threw method to string you bow! the most common rest on the recurves are the nap flipper style rests. i have one on my dorado, i shoot off the shelf on my other trad bows. you need arrows points etc, make sure they are the right spine.

now to the bigger part. you need to make you decision to what you are using to shoot your bow.
glove or tab. i suggest going to a good shop that has both and try them out and see what works best for you. most prefer gloves then tabs. but that is up to you to find out. make sure you are commfy with you choice of the 2. you can shoot a release with a recurve as well but not very common and a lot harder to master. i shoot 2 of my higher poundage trad bows with a release because of my bone disorder i have. make it hard to grip the string on the higher # bows.

hope this helps you out. welcome to the addiction of stick and string pretty soon you will be knappin points.

[Billy]

Carpsniper put up a good list for you.  If you have never visited www.tradgang.com it is probably the best resource, I have found, for traditional archery. 

You may be surprised at how much your "wheelie" bow will sit once your recurve arrives.  Welcome to the Trad World!

[CanvasGear]

Thanks for the tips. Looks like I'm going to have to be patient and wait for the bow to arrive. Still a little confused about arrows. With my compound I've always just tried to get over 6-8 grains per pound. Correct me if I'm wrong, a recurve needs a much heavier arrow. I checked out a few wooden arrow supplier websites but that just made no sense without knowing my draw length. Again correct me if I'm wrong it will be longer than my compound. Would Federal Way Sportsman's be a place that can install a knock point and fix me up with arrows. I did go back and add a bear hair rest and plate to my bow order assuming I would need some sort of rest to get started.


CG

[Old Dog]

We don't have a lot of traditional tackle at Federal Way Wholesale Sports   I'm a traditional shooter, and it drives me crazy that I work in archery, and have to buy most of my accessories somewhere else.  We only have the carbon arrows.   I can, however install a string nock for you.  Come see me for a visit when you get your new bow.  I'll help you out as much as I can, and give you a few pointers on how to shoot it.

Larry AKA Old Dog

[Hornseeker]

Sounds like you are getting some good advice.... go see Larry since he's shot trad and he will probably be able to get you rollin...

Carbon arrows work exceptionally on trad bows...that is ALL i shoot...all i've ever shot on my longbows and recurves.

Tell me what weight the bow is? How tall are you? what do you draw your compound? It will be within about an inch of that, depending on your shooting style, which you will have to develop over time.

Good Luck!

[CanvasGear]

Sounds like you are getting some good advice.... go see Larry since he's shot trad and he will probably be able to get you rollin...

Carbon arrows work exceptionally on trad bows...that is ALL i shoot...all i've ever shot on my longbows and recurves.

Tell me what weight the bow is? How tall are you? what do you draw your compound? It will be within about an inch of that, depending on your shooting style, which you will have to develop over time.

Good Luck!

I'm about 5'9". My compound is 27" @72 lbs. may be a bit longer Ive heard Mathews is longer than whats stamped on the cam. The new bow is 50Lbs.

I was thinking Easton classics but If carbons will work and get the penetration for big game then maybe thats the route to go. Id like to start off with an arrow that can be used to hunt even if hunting with it is a ways out.

CG

[Billy]

With arrow weight, I usually shoot 10-12 grains per pound.  The heavier arrows will quiet the bow down and help increase kinetic energy at the lower arrow speeds.  I use both woodies and carbons.  My carbons have 100 gr inserts and 150 gr heads to bring the weight up.  You can also buy weighted tubes, for a more even distribution of weight. 

I've had Port Orford Cedar arrows made by Suzanne St. Charles.  She owns Northwest Archery (www.nwarchery.com) and does outstanding work.  She has a helpful chart for figuring out the proper arrow spine for your poundage and type of bow.  Her business is entirely internet based, but she is in the South Prairie area.

POC arrows are heavy.  My 29 inch shafts are running about 560 gr.

[Hornseeker]

If you are 5'9" and fairly proportionate... odds are, after some shooting and form development you'll shoot right at 27-28 inch draw on a recurve. Depends on shooting style though. The new bow is marked 50@28...so if you draw 27, it will only be a bout 47 1/2 pound bow... if you draw 29, it'll go up to 53 ish...

Personally, I shoot Beman MFX or Easton Axis arrows. You can get the MFX's in wood grain that really go nicely with trad gear but that doesn't matter...long as they work.

So, what spine arrow you get has a lot to do with what weight BH you want to shoot. I shoot heavy up front, like Billy...so you need a stiffer spined arrow to handle that heavy front end. Billy mentioned using weight tubes to weight up carbons more uniformly... dont do that...just use a heavy head and a heavier spined arrow to get the weight up. If you get the FOC % higher, you'll get better arrow flight (debateable) and better penetration on tough shots where bones may be contacted.

Id recommend the MFX or Axis 500's cut to about 30 inches... then you can get an assortment of field tip weights and start shooting them and tuning... they will likely fly well with a 150-200 grain front load...

There is a great tutorial on tuning a trad bow/arrow combo at:
http://bowmaker.net/index2.htm

Good Luck

[Old Dog]

  

 

[Hornseeker]

Also, I shoot about 9.5 gpp, but anything over about 7.5 is a pretty dang good number... If you are going to limit shots to under 20 yards, go heavy, 11+ gpp and you'll get great penetration with all that momentum behind the arrow... The arrow will be slower, which also helps a true instinctive shooter because the brain recognizes the trajectory....

Good Luck!

[CanvasGear]

Thank you for all the great advise. I'm still waiting for my new bow so have'nt been able to get anything accomplished yet. I did get to shoot a friends bow, exact same as mine. All in all for a first time I think it went well. I could hit a 3" group nearly every time at 20 yards. The grouping was good but an inch off to the left so need to figure out the whole aiming without a site. Also I didnt use a glove or tab, Im assuming those are for finger protection more than anything else.

CG

[Hornseeker]

If you can group your arrows into a 3" circle your first time trying, you should consider competing in traditional archery, as many of the top shooters in the nation cant do much better than that....and you are only getting started...

[CanvasGear]

If you can group your arrows into a 3" circle your first time trying, you should consider competing in traditional archery, as many of the top shooters in the nation cant do much better than that....and you are only getting started...

At 20 yards? I'm sure the pro's shoot further than 20 yards. My friend that owns the bow we were playing with shoots better, more comparable to how I shoot a compound. He shoots clay pigeons all the time thats what got me thinking traditional for grouse.

CG

[NWWABOWHNTR]

Don't know of any "PRO's" in the trad category competing,  but indoors is 18M for multicolor and 20 yards for blueface.... and if you are consistently grouping at 3"'s then you need to get out there and compete.  Outdoors (3D) you can and will be shooting much longer than that not much further than 50 yards at the State and below levels.  However for other outdoor shoots such as Field and Safari you would be shooting out to 101 yards (Safari) and 80 in the Field.  We need more trad guys out here in the WSAA and NFAA competing!  Lots compete at the local club levels but only a handful at the State level.   We get a pretty good showing at the National levels but could always use more.  Get involved with your local archery club and join the WSAA and NFAA!

[CanvasGear]

Don't know of any "PRO's" in the trad category competing,  but indoors is 18M for multicolor and 20 yards for blueface.... and if you are consistently grouping at 3"'s then you need to get out there and compete.  Outdoors (3D) you can and will be shooting much longer than that not much further than 50 yards at the State and below levels.  However for other outdoor shoots such as Field and Safari you would be shooting out to 101 yards (Safari) and 80 in the Field.  We need more trad guys out here in the WSAA and NFAA competing!  Lots compete at the local club levels but only a handful at the State level.   We get a pretty good showing at the National levels but could always use more.  Get involved with your local archery club and join the WSAA and NFAA!

Although I dont have a clue what any of that means it does sound fun. I get bad target panic over about 50 yards with my compound and rely heavily on a range finder. Ive seen the competitions on tv and noticed they dont use range finders. Indoor wouldnt be something I'd be interested in. Me and crowds dont get along in enclosed spaces. 3d looked fun, maybe I'd have less target panic if I knew a miss wouldnt hurt anything. My 3d's in the yard are against a fence so trashing the neighbors fence and arrows always seems to get me shaking. 101 yards really?! I thought 60 was long.

CG

[Hornseeker]

There are a lot of different types of shoots…  But one popular competition is the NFAA 300 Round, which is shot at 20 yards. The bulls-eye is like 2.94 inches or something like that… not sure, but very close to 3 inches. You shoot 5 arrows, 12 times at it.


I’m not trying to be a smart ass,  but the best shooters in the world, of all time, don’t put “all their arrows” in the center, not trad guys. Compounders do…  compounders shoot a 300 and the winner is figured by how many X’s you hit. Trad guys shoot between 250 and 285 points to win national tournaments.

You are saying that a lot of your arrows go in a 3 inch group…but not all of them. Well, that is GREAT shooting, and if your buddy can outshoot you...he is a greater shot! I am a decent shot and when I'm really doin good, I can keep "most" of my arrows in a 3" group at 20 yards.... but that with 5 years of a LOT of practice and study!! SO, I stand by that you are a natural and with some more practice you really ought to be one hell of a trad shot over time!!! Keep us posted!

[Hornseeker]

I thought 60 was long

60 IS LONG! Its just that 101 is HELLELONG!

[NWWABOWHNTR]

I thought 60 was long

60 IS LONG! Its just that 101 is HELLELONG!

LOL  Yep and it is what I like to refer to as a "Hail Mary" for us Trad guys.... down at the 3D Nationals in Redding you shoot at Bigfoot at 101 yards,  slightly quartered and of course in a canyon where the wind seems to whip sideways.... Just a clue aim at the crook in the branch several feet above his head and then add a litle more....    Not all shots are long distance though,  here is there target layout with yardages....

[CanvasGear]

Ok I got my bow. My buddy helped me set it up identical to his. 7.5" brace height, bear hair rest and plastic plate with knock at .5". My arrows for the compound are 26" and the tip comes up onto the shelf with my recurve. I need to get some longer arrows. How far past the shelf should they be for broadheads?

Its obvious that a bow of the same make and model are not the same. I cant shoot mine worth a damn but went back to my buddies I shot great, so something needs to change. With vanes mine hits the plate his does not. With feathers its much better but still getting some fishtailing.

I was shooting bare handed, well that was a big stupid mistake my ring finger is still numb. Now the glove vs tab question. The goal is to hunt with this bow so Id gladly take whatever advice I can get. Seems to me the glove is there and ready. On the other hand, can the tab be used with gloves keeping your hands warm?

I assume I need some string silencers because the bow does have that little string twang. Do I just get the fuzzy balls? Should I get the ones that protect the tips also?

Tuning questions! My understanding is that fishtailing up and down is a brace height problem. Is this correct? Fishtailing left and right is to stiff of arrow. Is this correct?

An observation I had was shooting three fingers under felt alot more natural than two under one over. The arrow flight was wierd with three under, the arrow seemed to curve down. Can the bow be tuned to shoot three under or do you have to have a custom or adjustable tiller setting?


Thats about it for now I'm sure I'll come up with more as time goes on.

CG

[Ray]

Arrow length.

http://www.bowproshop.com/arrow-length.html



Sounds like perhaps your arrows are not spined correctly or the nock point is incorrect, if you are experiencing fishtailing. Brace height issues in general should not be the source of fishtailing.

I shoot a glove. That's just a personal thing. But when I hunt I shoot bare handed..

Yes, if it's making noise get silencers. They can be picked up for about 5-6 dollars. Some are even cheaper. Silencers do not protect the tips. At least not any which I have ever seen.

[quadrafire]

Hey canvas. Look at hornseekers post #8 and go to the site he listed. It is VERY informative on tuning.

[Ray]

I agree, that is a good link --> http://bowmaker.net/tuning.htm

[CanvasGear]

Thanks for the help. I ended up with Easton Legacy 2018 arrows and 140g FP's. Also figured out the problem with shooting. My buddies bow is older and has a thinner grip. Mine is going to need some work with a rasp but until I get that done a finger sling (shoe string) and a  wide open grip cured the problems.

Thanks
CG

[Snapshot]

CG
There isn't a rule for how far past the back of the bow the arrow tip should be when at full draw; just make sure you have enough length to keep the the back of the broadhead from coming into contact with your hand or the bow.
The nock position on the string is what you adjust if the arrow porpoises (up and down motion early in its' flight); don't just assume that .5" above 90 degrees is going to be perfect for you; play around with it until the porpoising stops.
Adjusting brace height can correct fishtailing (side to side arrow motion early in flight) but only if the arrow is nearly matched to the bow. A number of other things also have to be considered; arrow spine, arrow length and point weight; if you change any one of them on a given arrow you will change the way it comes off of the bow. For example if a set of arrow shafts are too stiff with 125 grain points and you have already cut them to length, try more weight up front; a heavier tip will in essence soften up the spine. Another example; two identically spined arrows that have the same point weight but are of different lengths will not shoot the same. The shorter one will be stiffer coming off the bow.
I have a hunting partner who was having trouble getting a particular bow to give him good arrow flight; until he turned the cock feather toward the strike plate. No more trouble with arrow flight on that bow!
Once you find the magic combination make notes for that bow on the exact brace height, nock point position and arrow specifications that work for it. Then it will be easier to tune when you make a new dozen arrows or have to replace the bowstring.
Cat whisker silencers are hard to beat for simplicity of use; you can slide them to different locations until you find the sweet spot for them. They are waterproof, too. That being said I like musk ox wool best.
You need to get to Moses Lake in April for the Rock Shoot. You can learn more in a weekend of rubbing shoulders with a couple hundred hard core traditional shooters than anywhere.

[CanvasGear]

Thanks Ive ordered a bunch of different tips. Once I figured out the why's it seems very simple. The archers pardox I mean. Now that Ive shot a few hundred arrows its starting to all make sense. I did end up going cock feather in for the time being until the tips show up, that made a huge difference. Shot my compound last night and notice that shooting the recurve is actually helping with my form in general. Should be a fun hobby.

CG

[Snapshot]

If I may be so bold, CG, it can be a fun "LIFESTYLE". Enjoy it.

[Hornseeker]

Snapshot pretty much covered it all CG.... Good Luck and keep us posted...

Question....if your  buddies bow is the same as yours,and it shoots perfectly for you, why dont you get the SAME exact arrow setup as him....ONly word of caution would be that even though they are supposed to be the same, the poundage could be off some and pay attentionto the center shot of each.

E

[CanvasGear]

Question....if your  buddies bow is the same as yours,and it shoots perfectly for you, why dont you get the SAME exact arrow setup as him....ONly word of caution would be that even though they are supposed to be the same, the poundage could be off some and pay attentionto the center shot of each.

E

My buddies bow is quite abit different once we started looking and measuring. We are both shooting the same arrows. Both are cheap Samick Sage bows. His came with good string mine came with a dacron. His handle is more hand fitted for lack of better words. Mine is sort of blocky with to many squared off edges.
My string has twice as many twist to get the same brace height. His is 50lbs at 27" mine is 48. My shelf cut out is 1/16" deeper, pretty sure that creates some issues.
I guess the made in china bows are not made to any real exact specs.

CG

[Hornseeker]

Cheap bows in general are not made to real exact specs... that is for sure. But...the bow should be shootable... just keep playing, you'll get it.

[CanvasGear]

Cheap bows in general are not made to real exact specs... that is for sure. But...the bow should be shootable... just keep playing, you'll get it.

They get good reviews. I'm not blaming the bow its all me.

CG

[Hornseeker]

Holy crap, I just googled it...wow...I didn't realize they were that inexpensive. It is REALLY cool that you can pick up a bow (your buddys evidently) for that price and shoot well... Very cool.

I cant pay myself a dollar if I sold a bow for that price!

[CanvasGear]

Holy crap, I just googled it...wow...I didn't realize they were that inexpensive. It is REALLY cool that you can pick up a bow (your buddys evidently) for that price and shoot well... Very cool.

I cant pay myself a dollar if I sold a bow for that price!

I did a little work with the rasp and sandpaper last night and its now fitting much better, even broke some knocks. With free shipping and 20 bucks in 3 rivers bucks its a sweet deal to try out traditional archery.
Here is a good write up on the bow if anyone is interested.
http://peteward.com/2009pages/test.Samick.sage.html

CG

[Ray]

If I was in to shooting carp - that would be my bow. They are popular.

[carpsniperg2]

we can work on that