Full frontal

[jrebel]

No not what your thinking....lets keep it clean. 

Would you take a frontal shot on a deer at 30 Yards if that is all you had? 

[HardCorpsHuntr]

The question is would you

[FC]

Right between the running lights.

[300rum]

Yes.   

[blacktailbutcher]

Yes. And I have. Very effective kill shot.

[jrebel]

hardcorpshunter

The answer yesterday was yes....Now I am not sure I would do it again.  I shot a doe yesterday at 30 yards....the arrow hit bottom third dead center.  It exited out her back side without even slowing down and stuck in a tree twenty yards behind her.  No blood for the first 10 yards and then a decent blood trail for 40 yards or so.....Blood stopped and I could not find her.  I looked for roughly four hours and did a grid search for approx 200 yards in all directions. 

Maybe the contributing factor is my broadhead selection.  I shoot 125 grain sonics because the shoot exactly like my fieldpoints.  However this is the second consecutive animal that has given me almost no blood trail.  The elk we recovered with a grid search...Thank God.   The deer I was not so lucky with.  This makes me sick to my stomach.  I am so dissapointed that I am done for the early season.

[Hunter Dug]

With a bow no way,  With a rifle or muzzle loader in a heartbeat.  Best to have a entrance and exit wound with an arrow.  With a gun this will typically drop the animal, with a shot to the upper half of the animal.

[boneaddict]

In the past I would have.  After hearing many of the stories and accounts on here from folks I probably wouldn't.  I have killed two bucks with the shot in the throat from much closer distance.(I am tlaking bow...rifle, no problem)

I'm really surprised you got a pass thru that direction and had momentum enough to stick a tree.

[jrebel]

Me too, I was looking for my arrow on the ground and when I looked up it was stuck in a tree.  I thought it would pass though, just not fast enough to stick in a tree.  I have not had one arrow stay in a deer or elk in the last 5 years....all pass throughs.  I would rather them stay in and cut while they are moving...like the old days.

[boneaddict]

I'll have to research that broadhead.  I don't know anything about them. 

[npaull]

Hey jrebel,

I would imagine almost without a doubt that what happened is your arrow tunneled underneath the ribcage and actually ended up staying subcutaneous but not inside a body cavity the whole way through. You probably skived unerneath the chest and didn't go through the abdomen at all. This wound would bleed a lot initially but then stop.

As a surgeon, I can tell you without a doubt it is simply not possible that your arrow went through the chest, diaphragm, then into the abdomen, through the abdomen and out the other end and the deer did not die within a few tens of yards.

The good news is that there is a decent chance the deer will survive this injury.

To answer the initial question, less than 30 yards no way, but less than 10 or so probably, if it felt good (I hunt with a longbow). I think this shot at 20+ yards is not a good idea. It takes SO little movement on the part of the deer to turn a potentially good shot into a terrible one.

But again jrebel, this may not have been a fatal injury. Sorry it happened, it's always tough.

[jrebel]

My arrow reaks of GI and is covered in blood.  It would have been impossible for the arrow to travel through the abd without going through the chest as it was level with me, not to mention I saw the arrow hit.  I'm telling you that the arrow was a clean through and through....That is why I am discusted with the fact that I did not find this deer.  I won't take a frontal shot again, and I think I need to change broadheads to get more cutting surface. 

[npaull]

It couldn't go through the abdomen without going through the chest, but it could go BETWEEN the ribcage and the skin without going into either the chest or the abdomen. This sort of trajectory would make it look like the arrow went "through and through" but in fact it would not have gone through a body cavity, just underneath skin for a ways. This is what I think happened. It's actually not unheard of with frontal shots unfortunately, because the sternum rises up a few inches vertically from that angle. The arrow hits the sternum or one of the first few ribs and is deflected inferiorly and ends up running between the ribs and the skin. If the arrow's actually covered in stool then of course this theory is wrong, but if it just smells it could still easily have happened the way I've described.

It is virtually impossible to think of any way it could actually have traveled through chest and abdomen without the deer dropping like a stone. At that angle, the window into the chest is only about 5" circle. If you're in that circle you go right over the heart, cutting both the aorta and pulmonary artery. Then you go back through the lungs. Then there's almost no way you can miss the liver, and you cut a ton of mesenteric blood vessels all the way back as you go out. It would have dropped in site almost for sure. It's the most devastating injury you can have short of a beheading.

Anyway, we'll never know for sure, but I'm just telling you this to try and make you feel better. If it happened the way you described, the deer died very very fast. If it happened the way I described, it may not die at all.

Anyway, sorry again. It's crappy when it doesn't work out.

[Grizzly95]

About 8 years ago I took that same shot at 20 yards, almost passed through. There was about 10 inches of arrow sticking out the back side. Watched her go about 50 yards and lay down. We backed out and came back after a little while only to find a gutpile   someone took my deer! I have done the texas heart shot effectively also. I was shooting Muzzy's.

[jstone]

In 06 my buddy and i had the entiat archery tag. he shot a 3x3 at about 7 yards walking right at him shot it directly in the heart. the deer turned and walked almost all the way to the top of the hill, amazing will to survive. you could see the arrow sticking out and the blood just pumping out. Animals are very tough.