Methow Valley Bulletin Board... Wolf Wars.

[mulehunter]

Scott Fitkin Loves his job and his FIRST Wolves Pack in MANY MANY YEARS as CAREER and doesnt want to get order Wolf Deperation Control to removel Pack.

I don't know this fellow and I am not slandering him. Aside from him I know that there are those inside the government who see to it that their job security is well guarded and will find many ways to guard their careers. That's not an outlandish claim.

True... If It were MY Career and I would support CAL and work together, and I would ask Govt to give fund to larry with Very CUTE amount of 3,000 or 6,000 dollar for their loss two. I guess He isnt Honest GOVT Officer. Anyway No wonder why he is very SECURITY with Wolves!


Mulehunter

[Lowedog]

Bearpaw, I ask for no sympathy from you or anyone else.  You actually think it hurts my feeling that someone called me a tree hugger?  Maybe that is an insult in your myopic world. 

You and your buddies are the ones on the witch hunt.  You go around to message boards spewing your rhetoric and just expect people to fall in line and say *censored* like SSS. 

I did go fishing for it.  Like I said I followed a link from your Facebook cause, when i went there to check it out, and what do I see but a bunch of bullying and attacking of someone on another forum who doesn't agree with you.  The funny thing is that you and your chronies think you were getting the better of her.     That woman lives in that community along with longshot, who cares if they bicker back and forth? 

If you don't like getting *censored* from wacko anti hunters then don't post videos on youtube.  That place is a cesspool for people like that. 

If you want to tell me to get out of your faces about bullying then get out my face with your anti wolf rhetoric.  It has become old and stagnant. 

And besides you and your cohorts who am I criticizing?  You really think I care how I appear to your extremist buddies? 

[wolfbait]

This is for those of you who enjoy deer hunting. A while back I said I wasn't going to argue on W-H and I won't. All three of you who are interested in management might want to move some place where they don't have wolves yet and manage away. You know the facts about the wolves. How much wolf management did Idaho, Montana and the Yellowstone get? Where are their game populations now where wolves exsist? You will see the Methow Valley bite the dust first, but you will still cling to your ideas of waiting for management, and reporting all wolf sightings so that WDFW will go and confirm wolf packs. Thats fine, there needs to be people who leave all of their faith to the WDFW to do the right thing. Just as there is a need for people to tell it how it really is. The mainstream media won't touch it, the articles in news papers, the stories from people who have been dealing with these wolves since the beginnig need to be told, don't you agree? The truth of this disaster is coming out and as more people are educated to the real facts  and not the BS that WDFW or Defenders of Wildlife feed to those who live on emotion, the more people become educated about what these wolves have really done to the game herds and how it is to deal with wolves in their front yard, they are realizing that they really don't want wolves.  Lowedog's main problem is he really don't like the idea of "outsiders" who have been fighting this fight forever educating the Methow Valley, you crack me up Lowedog .Cheers


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Re: Only Wolves in the MethowWow ! Mr. Ott Not to take us on his mental Wanderings about wolves , there is only museings here .....where is the Meat ?

          I really had Old Rose walkin' fast, backwards. Her diatribe was Devolving into a mystic Karma, Carmel, Lotte' , stammer......but back to business.

          I would like anyone to divide the amount of Elk killed between 2007, when I was wittness to 17,500 Elk in Jackson Hole and 2010 when I saw 4,200 Elk in Jackson Hole by the 15-16 Deer formula that Mr Ott has supplied us with . Now a deer will weigh 90 lbs if it is a white tail or maybe 100 if it is a Muley. One Elk will constitute 9-10 Deer.............Wow ! there are alot of wolves in Jackson Hole ! Now divide fetuses ripped from Cow Elk and the Elk is left untouched and calves that have out run the Grizz, into the mix and you see that there are even more wolves.

          There is nothing romantic about the Wolf , in Germany the Citizens of Aushwitz were brought out to see the concentration camps that they denied knowing anything about. I call this the Aushwitz Syndrome........does this remind you of anyone ?

            There are parallels in History and Environmentalists are coming up Nazi !

http://www.methownet.com/bulletinboard.html

[Ray]

If you don't like getting *censored* from wacko anti hunters then don't post videos on youtube.  That place is a cesspool for people like that. 

I don't believe putting hunting videos on YouTube is an open invitation for threats of violence. Would you care to explain how it is a bad idea to put hunting videos on YouTube? It seems to me that part of a valid business model would be to openly promote your products in various media outlets. And that you should be free and legal to do so, within reasonable boundaries and without threats of violence for doing so.

[coop2424]

If you don't like getting *censored* from wacko anti hunters then don't post videos on youtube.  That place is a cesspool for people like that. 

I don't believe putting hunting videos on YouTube is an open invitation for threats of violence. Would you care to explain how it is a bad idea to put hunting videos on YouTube? It seems to me that part of a valid business model would be to openly promote your products in various media outlets. And that you should be free and legal to do so, within reasonable boundaries and without threats of violence for doing so.

x2

When the threats are personal and to their family that is when it is taking it to a whole new level!! 

[Ray]

I believe those examples of hatred and physical threat displayed openly on YouTube or in emails also give us insight as to who and what kind of minds are behind the core of the pro-wolf movements. Their display or own form of bullying. I'd say it is an act of bullying and or harassment of hunters into the state of mind that they cannot openly share their experiences on that format/venue (YouTube).

[Lowedog]

If you don't like getting *censored* from wacko anti hunters then don't post videos on youtube.  That place is a cesspool for people like that. 

I don't believe putting hunting videos on YouTube is an open invitation for threats of violence. Would you care to explain how it is a bad idea to put hunting videos on YouTube? It seems to me that part of a valid business model would be to openly promote your products in various media outlets. And that you should be free and legal to do so, within reasonable boundaries and without threats of violence for doing so.

Did I say I think it is a bad idea to put hunting videos on youtube?  I watch them all the time and I read the crap those people spew on there.  It is somewhat like what the anti wolf crowd does when you don't fall in line. 

I believe those examples of hatred and physical threat displayed openly on YouTube or in emails also give us insight as to who and what kind of minds are behind the core of the pro-wolf movements. Their display or own form of bullying. I'd say it is an act of bullying and or harassment of hunters into the state of mind that they cannot openly share their experiences on that format/venue (YouTube).

My whole reason to start this thread was because of extremist behavior.  Did you get a chance to read the original thread that I linked to?  Point being that there are extremist on both sides of the issue. 

[grundy53]

If you don't like getting *censored* from wacko anti hunters then don't post videos on youtube.  That place is a cesspool for people like that. 

I don't believe putting hunting videos on YouTube is an open invitation for threats of violence. Would you care to explain how it is a bad idea to put hunting videos on YouTube? It seems to me that part of a valid business model would be to openly promote your products in various media outlets. And that you should be free and legal to do so, within reasonable boundaries and without threats of violence for doing so.

Did I say I think it is a bad idea to put hunting videos on youtube?  I watch them all the time and I read the crap those people spew on there.  It is somewhat like what the anti wolf crowd does when you don't fall in line. 

I believe those examples of hatred and physical threat displayed openly on YouTube or in emails also give us insight as to who and what kind of minds are behind the core of the pro-wolf movements. Their display or own form of bullying. I'd say it is an act of bullying and or harassment of hunters into the state of mind that they cannot openly share their experiences on that format/venue (YouTube).

My whole reason to start this thread was because of extremist behavior.  Did you get a chance to read the original thread that I linked to?  Point being that there are extremist on both sides of the issue. 

Except I've never heard an anti wolfer threaten to kill another human being... I think you are comparing apples to oranges. We want the wolves gone they want US gone... and you are defending them? I'm sorry but I value a human life way more then a dumb wolf's...

[Ray]

Lowedog you never said it was a bad idea. But you implicitly make it so. I think it's pretty evident.

Did I need to read the original topic to understand what is going on? I don't think I am that misinformed about matters to not make intelligent responses here.

Overall your tone is grossly arrogant on this topic in several ways. It is no surprise to me and I am coming into the discussion to basically call you out on that. It worked. You are proving to be the pot stirrer and look more like an extremist to me than some others here. You basically ridicule others for creating their own websites, and venues for sharing their ideas and spreading their information. As if it some bullying crime to do so. The bullies are people like you who do not tolerate others who have invested time, effort and resources to create these venues which you say are in your face.  Don't read it or open it if you don't agree. I don't like everything written here and choose to open and read what I want. So what do you do? You jump in their face and start calling them extremist. Sounds like the pot calling the kettle.

[Lowedog]

Ray, if you didn't read what was going on at the link I posted then I really don't think you are informed enough to make the remarks you have. 

I will admit to stirring the pot on this.  I simply wanted to show what we have going on with the people who are constantly telling us that we have our heads in the sand on this issue.  Who are constantly telling us how the extremist on the pro wolf side are shoving wolves down our throats.  To me it was an extremist move to have several people from the anti wolf crowd join that forum to basically belittle and berate this one person who was posting her views on the topic. 


Some of these people have come on here and insulted and berated others for having different views than their own. 

Show me where I have ridiculed anyone for having their own websites.  I posted a link to a blog of one of the founders of SWW and said "an extremist viewpoint? You decide."  If people are being asked to join forces with certain groups shouldn't they know who is behind them?  What led me to that blog?  His posts towards the woman in the link I posted. 


If you want to view me as an extremist for that then so be it.  If you are telling me cease and desist...it's your website and you got it. 

[Ray]

Cease and desist? C'mon.

I reiterate that you are arrogant. This remark speaks for itself.

Ray, if you didn't read what was going on at the link I posted then I really don't think you are informed enough to make the remarks you have.

So basically you say two wrongs make a right here:

I will admit to stirring the pot on this.  I simply wanted to show what we have going on with the people who are constantly telling us that we have our heads in the sand on this issue.  Who are constantly telling us how the extremist on the pro wolf side are shoving wolves down our throats.  To me it was an extremist move to have several people from the anti wolf crowd join that forum to basically belittle and berate this one person who was posting her views on the topic.

Additionally your attempt is simply to discredit others but you stoop to low levels and have compromised your own credibilty in doing so.

You have basically left open ended statements several times without providing more information as to the meaning of what you say at times. As a result many here are starting to interpret you as the extremist and question your motives, credibility and standing. You did it. Not me. Just calling it like I see it.

I posted a link to a blog of one of the founders of SWW and said "an extremist viewpoint? You decide."  If people are being asked to join forces with certain groups shouldn't they know who is behind them?  What led me to that blog?  His posts towards the woman in the link I posted.

Forgive if I am mistaken but it seems you imply that anyone who supports a wolf management which means eliminating wolves which might do the state game populations in or which might be destructive to their property as poachers and unjust in their actions. Since when is it extreme for Americans to expose the governmental abuse, inaction, and mismanagement of wolves? And then take matters into their own hands when their government fails them? You make many of such critics out as extremist and fringe of the crowd when it comes to hunters. But you are clearly not the arbiter of those measures. Yet you assert yourself and your position as centrist, rational and sound. However at the same time call on people to make their own decisions. Sounds kind of stange to me. But hey, I not informed enough to make remarks on wolves. LOL

[Lowedog]

Cease and desist? C'mon.

I reiterate that you are arrogant. This remark speaks for itself.

Ray, if you didn't read what was going on at the link I posted then I really don't think you are informed enough to make the remarks you have.

So basically you say two wrongs make a right here:

I will admit to stirring the pot on this.  I simply wanted to show what we have going on with the people who are constantly telling us that we have our heads in the sand on this issue.  Who are constantly telling us how the extremist on the pro wolf side are shoving wolves down our throats.  To me it was an extremist move to have several people from the anti wolf crowd join that forum to basically belittle and berate this one person who was posting her views on the topic.

Additionally your attempt is simply to discredit others but you stoop to low levels and have compromised your own credibilty in doing so.

You have basically left open ended statements several times without providing more information as to the meaning of what you say at times. As a result many here are starting to interpret you as the extremist and question your motives, credibility and standing. You did it. Not me. Just calling it like I see it.

I posted a link to a blog of one of the founders of SWW and said "an extremist viewpoint? You decide."  If people are being asked to join forces with certain groups shouldn't they know who is behind them?  What led me to that blog?  His posts towards the woman in the link I posted.

Forgive if I am mistaken but it seems you imply that anyone who supports a wolf management which means eliminating wolves which might do the state game populations in or which might be destructive to their property as poachers and unjust in their actions. Since when is it extreme for Americans to expose the governmental abuse, inaction, and mismanagement of wolves? And then take matters into their own hands when their government fails them? You make many of such critics out as extremist and fringe of the crowd when it comes to hunters. But you are clearly not the arbiter of those measures. Yet you assert yourself and your position as centrist, rational and sound. However at the same time call on people to make their own decisions. Sounds kind of stange to me. But hey, I not informed enough to make remarks on wolves. LOL

Again, think of me what you will.  No skin off my back.  You calling me arrogant is, like you say, the pot calling the kettle black. 

You suggesting that I think 2 wrongs make a right is ironic when you imply that breaking the law is fine as long as you feel that it is justified in that your government is failing you.  Wouldn't it be more like the American way to try and change the laws instead of breaking them? 

Where have I implied that anyone who supports a wolf management which means eliminating wolves as poachers and unjust in their actions?  I have said that I don't support that plan, if you think that means anything else than pertaining to myself then you are reading too much into my statements. 

I have posted on one occasion recently in response to someone saying something along the lines of call me a poacher if you want but that they would shoot a wolf if they get one in their sites that it reflects poorly on the membership of this website.  I guess I should recant that statement because that is just my opinion. 

And my comment about if you hadn't read what was going on at that link I posted then I really don't think you were informed enough to make the remarks you had, had nothing to do with wolves.  It had to do with the type of harassment I perceived to be going on there.  You are a very smart man and I presume you are very knowledgeable with what is going on with wolves.     

I will back off now.  This isn't my first rodeo. LOL

[bearpaw]

Lowedog, I think you need to consider that the Governor of Idaho has threatened the Feds they are going to cease all wolf management and any reporting of ESA violations (SSS). I don't think you understand the magnitude of the problem. Many Idaho people have lost their business and livlihood to wolves and the lack of proper management. This was brought on by the arrogance of the Pro-Wolf crowd who refuse to allow management.

http://graywolfnews.com/pdf/Idaho_Requests_USFWS_MOA.pdf

[Ray]

Lowedog,

You've tapdanced all around but that's what your problem is. You want to say just enough to stir the pot. The amount of arrogance which you carry on repeatedly in your post is just short of insulting. In fact you stated several times that I was not informed enough to discuss wolf matters. As if one needs higher education to respond. What an moronic claim. When confronted twice you finally offer up an alternative (just enough to stir the pot as stated above)but supposedly less insulting. You know that is false and arrogant as well as I do. What I mostly sense when I read such gibberish barfed on the computer screen is that you have a harder time compromising when you might be slightly wrong or even when someone gets an edge against you on an argument. You just hold fast to poor statements like that. I don't know if it is very clear to you. Not my problem.

My statement about your arrogant positions on wolf discussions is not the pot calling the kettle. I have not discredited your remarks with flat statements that you are not informed enough to discuss wolf topics. Think before you type. It might help your cause and save you some face. LOL

I'll lay off for now but I would advise that you consider whether or not your methods are as extreme and unsound as your "opponents" on this subject.

[mulehunter]

Well Said.


Mulehunter