good day 4 the tribe

[monster_bull]

i was hoping not that many natives would of found out about the colokum. i am serious. i love that place. but scene it was put in the paper and word started getting around about it more and more natives gone up there. i honestly hope they dont ruin the hunting up there. i do believe that we can get along and work together to help manage the herd. i my self have taken to bulls out of the colokum this year and they were two old bulls on there way down hill. bu what i have seen it that
there are a lot more younger bulls this year. i have seen alot of rag horns.  And alot of nice bull. i am hoping other natives don't ruin this. i dont break any rules when i am up there. i now some natives break them. But i dont. I have shot two spikes this year and nether was  a true spike. i know you guys shoot those. i have already ate both of those and dang near got my elk burger done. i don't eat beef. i eat elk and deer. i wasnt calling you stupid ColokumElk but see how you took that. It wasn't meant toward you but u took it like it was. that's how people talk about me and my people on this site. dosent feel good does it. then they say were not bashing natives.

[Coastal_native]

Monster_bull,

We eat spikes pretty fast too over on the coast.  The nearest store with reasonably priced beef is probably an hours drive.  My family never really bought beef.  It's cool though...in the summer time when we are having lots of celebrations...we can sit down in a weekend with about two families and eat almost an entire spike elk...all cooked over the fire...with fresh salmon too.  We do it right there in our little village at the mouth of our river too, just like our people would have done it hundreds of years ago.

You seem to have a tough time on this these threads.  It's hard to maintain your cool when you're getting refered to as "Obama's illegitimate step children" or "rat *censored*s".  I can't fight with these guys like you do though...I'm not as close to the situation...sounds like you really do like hunting up there though, hopefully it doesn't go down hill like you guys are talking about.

Do you know any Quinault guys that hunt with family on your Reservation, I know one guy that goes to BBall tournaments over there and I think he does.

[monster_bull]

i know a Quinault. he is a good freind of mine. never been hunting with him but spent alot of time with guy. he is a good man. and yes i know what you mean. elk to the white guy is a specialty. elk to us is dinner, lunch and breakfast. it does get frustrating on here. but in the end i still do what i do. you sound like a good man. i hope they don't give you too much *censored* on here. they all think there right and we all think we r right. its a tale old as time.

[Special T]

Real conversation about Indian ways is good for all of us.... Elk is a special treat to us white guys but sharing a heart and a beer over an open fire is good for anyone's soul.... We are hunting brothers and if the tradition is not preserved our tradition will be lost... Look at the threads of poachers and those who waste the game that God has given us... I know many Indian stories about greed and waste.. Is our hunting heritage that different? I would guess no... many of us are mad at white peoples waste, and Indian waste makes us crazy.... I would think it is the envy that we have... When a tribesmen can hunt and fish without limit and (in our eye) is wasteful it drives us mad. I know Monster_bull you have acknowledged the work that goes into MOST white people's elk hunt... Isn't the extra work tribute to the the elk? I think it is the general disrespect(white or native) that fires most white people up... Maybe because we have to work had to get it.... 

[6x6rack]

Well, I've given it a couple days rest to see if any of the Tribal mouthpieces came up with anything other than talking circles to my last post, and as I suspected just a bunch of blabber. Oh...we sit around and eat a spike in two days...FYI, just makes you sound like dogs when the rest of us wait 5-7 years to get one and then we SAVOR it for a full year.

So another question so the rest of us can understand Indian math.

The speed limit is 60mph, but since you choose to only go 30mph one day, and 30mph the next, Indian math reasons you get to legally go 120 today?

(We choose to not take nearly as many cows as you, we dont take as many spikes as you...so we're going to kill every big bull in the herd to make up the difference (and we're not poaching)

Oh...and we all loved the line...I didn't kill the spike because I was thinking of you...so I killed two branched antler bulls instead.  

[monster_bull]

6x6rack . your a sad bitter man. And i did pass on many true spikes this year because i want white people to have a good chance a killing an elk. Special T well said and i do agree with you. but do you see what i mean. i try to get in a good convo with you and some one post this. story of my life i am honset on here i wont lie and say i didnt shoot two bulls. i did and i enjoyed it. i worked hard finding those bulls. past alot to get to them and in the end i still am eating one of them and enjoying looking at there racks.

[Special T]

And why wouldn't many white men be frustrated? It is no different than me talking to a friend that kills elk every year, when i work harder than he does but he has it much easier?

[Coastal_native]

6x6rack

....not sure where we go from here...Indian math?  My bachelor's degree is in engineering...I never took Indian math though

I did respond to your questions about our regs though if you're interested.  My comment about the spike wasn't intended to be boastful.  I was just trying to illustrate that we harvest a lot of elk and we eat a lot too.  Having a celebration where we consume a whole elk isn't anything new though...we've been doing that for hundreds of years...accept for that brief time period where the only roosevelt's that were left were deep in the olympics. 

A couple of years ago I harvested an elk right before some of my non tribal friends were putting together a big "pig roast" bbq.  There were probably about 30 people there and we all "savored" the elk for about 6 hours...that was probably half of an elk (not including the trimmings we took off for burger meat). 

The oceans, rivers, and forests have always been our pantry. 

[6x6rack]

Yep, well said.

Sad you are wiping out the Coluckum herd, and bitter that when people make GREAT, scientific, legal and moral arguements you would rather wag the dog then say "Man, these guys are right...we need to talk to the Yaks and get their biologists involved and have some Tribal accountability before we wipe out the herd, this thing makes us look really bad."

You see, every time you post you say something that a kindergardner could see the logic in, but you don't (and your the one who wrote it)

So we get equal share, or however you want to interpret it, but since WE MANAGE our share in an attempt to help and preserve the herd, YOU (Indians) deciede you are going to kill everything (branched antler bulls) we are trying to protect? Do you really not understand you are pissing in the face of everyone else who is trying to manage and protect it.

[6x6rack]

Yep Coastal,

The Quinault is quite a pantry. I've had some real sacred experiences with you guys.

[Little Dave]

Do any of the tribes teach ancestral hunting methods, consistent with the old ways?  and practice it? 

Some of the ancient methods may not be compatible with our era.  For example, one method was to get the game moving by setting the forest on fire, funnel the fleeing game through a bottleneck.  It's one of the first of many things I think of when I hear someone start into, "We should learn to live like the Indians used to."

Ironically, many forests are overgrown.  So have at it I guess.

[Coastal_native]

6x6rack,

I just realized I was in an argument with you...how did it start again?  I don't even know what I'm responding to anymore...  You haven't had any sacred experiences with me.  You said you had a bad experience with one of our fishing guides.

Sometimes I go to our local rivers during the state season and watch people yard fish in side ways and then kick them back into the river when they're too dark...in the end all that's left is a pile of Busch cans.  It doesn't make me hate state fisherman...just the little punks that do it.  The small landowners out in my county that have two untagged doe's and and a cow hanging in their garage in august are saying that Indians are the reason they can't kill a branch bull every year, but I don't hold it against you.  This has all been said already.

I have a feeling your trying to antagonize me with sarcasm, but I'm not sure why.  Your last few comments have been toxic to this thread.  Go back to the beginning and see how this topic progressed, pay attention to the posts in the last 5 or 6 pages that didn't have the same tone as those in the beginning...and then look how similar your last posts were to those in the beginning.  They scream "I hate Indians!". 

As I said before, I doubt you hate Indians.

[krout81]

Both of these papers have a lot of info if take the time to read them.  I found them interesting to say the least, but I have lots of time on my hands :-)
Ultimately I conclude from both papers that Technology is to blame. 

[6x6rack]

Coastal,

No argument on this side. If saying the Yakima's "don't get it", are idiots, or whatever, is toxic...well, they don't get it and are acting like idiots. No time, or desire, to smoke the peacepipe when they are out poaching all the bulls out of the herd. Perhaps if I referred to them as Ba'sis it would be more appropriate?

As for you I apolagize if I have offended you in any way. It's just time to wake up and smell the damn coffee on this issue.

If I were arguing or wanting to really be abrasive I would, and could, go for it...I have much more experience with Northwest tribes than you know. There is a certain ceremonial canoe carved by white carvers, whites that learned to honor and respect Northwest Indian culture (the old one), carved because the tribe didn't have any carvers left of their own. These white carvers spent a lot of time with tribes and got to see it all. Simon Charlie, the Hunts, Davidsons, LeFortunes, Lelooska and the Pollards. All up and down the Coast. Chinook, Tlingit, Makah, Haida, Kwakiutl, Bella Bella and Salish. Needless to say I have seen unimaginable waste, and unimaginable need.

I am pissed because need is relative, and cows eat just as good as Bulls, often better. No one here is stupid, the "need" to kill bulls is fabricated other than a few for a ceremony here and there, I understand that and have a deep respect for the cultural purpose it serves.

When a culture with such a deep and spiritual connection to the resource are the ones decimating it, sometimes you just need to slap them in the hopes someone, somewhere will wake up. Wake up before the resource is gone, but just as importantly wake up before the culture is gone. Glad we have a few of your attention. Now I hope you get together and do something about it. Hopefully we are not  Noomis before we can smoke the pipe, wet the grease bowl and celebrate together.

[Lowedog]

elk to the white guy is a specialty. elk to us is dinner, lunch and breakfast.

If this is true then why do so many of you pass on opportunities to harvest cows or lesser bulls to kill trophy size bulls?