good day 4 the tribe

[Coastal_native]

tlbradford,

are there rules that we can reference about conduct on this forum?  I'm curious about the criteria for being removed...I don't want to be removed yet, I still have a lot to say.

[Coastal_native]

rem,

you're misinterpreting what I'm saying, I meant...not a generous offer in the sense that the alternative was to die.

[remington300mag]

rem,

you're misinterpreting what I'm saying, I meant...not a generous offer in the sense that the alternative was to die.

No i get what your saying....I don't think you get that I am agreeing with you....I think it stinks what happened to the natives, in other words, it was a complete injustice!  All I am saying is....you cant change the past....you can only hope to make the future better!

[Coastal_native]

Agreed,

I gotta get a life...I've been glued to this thread for three days now, I'm trying to respond to everything like I'm saving the world .  MF elk opener tomorrow, and I'm trying to help a buddy fill a tag with some of my "secret squirrel" info.  Everybody needs an indian tracker . 

Hopefully we'll have pics of a successful hunt, it'll be his first bull.

[shedcrazy]

Agreed,

I gotta get a life...I've been glued to this thread for three days now, I'm trying to respond to everything like I'm saving the world .  MF elk opener tomorrow, and I'm trying to help a buddy fill a tag with some of my "secret squirrel" info.  Everybody needs an indian tracker . 

Hopefully we'll have pics of a successful hunt, it'll be his first bull.

Good luck

[tlbradford]

tlbradford,

are there rules that we can reference about conduct on this forum?  I'm curious about the criteria for being removed...I don't want to be removed yet, I still have a lot to say.

You are doing great.  I welcome your contributions.  Monsterbull was doing nothing but trying to fan the flames of this arguement and turning it into race issues which it is not.  This is a tough topic not to get heated about.  He never contributed anything of worth to the site, and was clearly only hear to ask people where they were taking pictures of big animals and to incite division between Indians and non-Indians.

[runamuk]

Rem,

I'm not arguing that...I just think there's a better way to say what you're trying to say without being insensitive.  I mean c'mon, I'm being honest...it was a pretty bad deal what happened to Native Americans and if we still want to grieve over it, just let us...don't tell us to get over it.  My father died when I was a kid and I still grieve over it...it's perfectly normal to remember the past.

This is has nothing to do with hunting, if you want to use the difference in hunting between now and 150 years ago in an argument, I have no problem with that.  

Am i being unreasonable right now?

And its a pretty bad deal how women were treated and still are all over the world....we can sit and stew and pick old scabs or we can stand up and walk forward 

and I am enjoying talking with you and reading your replies so please stick around...monster bull sounds much like whitefoot who would get all drunk and come into chat and try to restart the indian wars 
The yakama tribe has other issues as well it isn't just wildlife....what happens in the realm of childrens services over there is pretty special....and juvenile offenders yeah...I take some issue with the tribe overall.....but that does not mean I think all yakama's (when did it start being spelled different) are to blame....

[whiteeyes]

Colockum pay up..... haha just kidding
There was a winter and I cant remember the year, but the State could not afford to buy and feed the herd hay and the little old Yakama Indian Lady that lived at the mouth of the Nanuem  fed them her hay to sustain them all winter. I know that might not seem like a big deal or contribution, but I find that pretty cool.
Washing a window from only one side will still leave an unclear view, but it is a start to a clearer future.   Peace!

[colockumelk]

Colockum pay up..... haha just kidding
There was a winter and I cant remember the year, but the State could not afford to buy and feed the herd hay and the little old Yakama Indian Lady that lived at the mouth of the Nanuem  fed them her hay to sustain them all winter. I know that might not seem like a big deal or contribution, but I find that pretty cool.
Washing a window from only one side will still leave an unclear view, but it is a start to a clearer future.   Peace!

whiteeyes do you accept checks.  I promise I wont bounce it. 

I meant the Yakama Government or wildlife agency.  I didn't want to throw that blow out but I was trying to be as civil as possible with Monster Bull and may have stumbled.  .  But it gets aggrivating when someone claims that you have no life and when I'm trying to talk about the present and some managment and how the herd is hurting, he brings up 150 years ago and how he kills as many bulls as he can. 

[colockumelk]

monterbull,

I agree with you on this, our tribe has a problem giving information to the WDFW directly because we fear they will try to use it against us...they've done it in the past.  Luckily we have the northwest indian fisheries commision.  They do all the data sharing with the state for the tribes over here...they just don't let the state know which tribe the data is coming from.  That's not important for their purposes anyway.  

What Monster Bull says is true.  The Yakama's think that if they have to report harvests that they'll somehow not be allowed to hunt in the Colockum anymore.  But if they are so confident that the treaty or the rules can't be changed then why are they worried?  The truth is they are worried that the truth will come out and they wont be able to look like the good stewards towards conservation they pretend to be.  

In reality if they were made to divulge harvest reports Americans would probably see a reduction in branch bull permits since the WDFW or our state don't have the balls to do whats right. And pressure them to clean up their act in the Colockum.

And just so you CN it's not like the Colockum is the only Primary Managment Unit of their reservation they hunt.  There is 4 PMU's in the Yakima Elk herd that they hunt as well.  And they give a very bad name to Indians all over the state when they go up in the winter at the feeding stations and harvest bulls in plain view of the public.  In fact because of the Yakama's they have closed to feeding sites to the public to help keep the elk safe.  They have gated an entire GMU during the winter to the public to keep the Yakamas out of the areas Prime Mule Deer wintering grounds because they were shooting all the bucks they could find. (Although to be fair there was a fair amount of poachers in the mud lake area as well.  So in that case it wasn't JUST them)  Somehow though they are still allowed to get keys to the gates.  This isn't some rumors I have heard these are actual things that the WDFW has had to do to protect elk and deer herds in the area.  Because despite what Monster Bull claims, THEY ARE having an effect on our herds.    

Hopefully we'll have pics of a successful hunt, it'll be his first bull.

oooh pics.  You better post some pics up.  We LOVE elk pics.  Seriously though good luck.  Its always pretty cool guiding someone to their first elk.  Hope you guys score.

[6x6rack]

I was just reading and re-reading this thread and some things struck me that are worth a second look.

First, I have yet to see a Native American on this thread step up and say "hey, obviously there is a problem, how can I help" It's been one empty, lame excuse after another.

Second, Why when a white person speaks their mind it is offensive, but rubbing poaching in our face is not? There is no need to chase the tail of "EQUAL" again and that taking all bulls is not an "EQUAL" sharing of the resource. That battle has been fought and won, despite somes un-willingness to apply this kindergarden level logic. (lets take 10 little pieces of candy, and 5 great big pieces of candy and put it in front of kindergardners. Lets give the 10 little ones to Johny and the 5 big ones to Sally. First Johnny is going to complain that Sally got all the big ones, then at recess Sally is going to say NEENER, NEENER, NEENER...I got all the big ones" Why...because even a knidergardner can see the resource was not divided "EQUALLY" and both parties damn well know it.

Third, Every time someone steps in and says, "hey, we are sick of this, lets find a way to get something done" An Indian jumps in with ...No, that wont work, Hey you will loose, Bad idea, that was already decieded etc, etc. I think they are wrong, and truly believe racial or Class discrimination CAN NOT be applied where public funds are being used to manage a public resource on public property. I do think they can on the REZ, but NO WAY on public property. Members of any other Nation must abide by the laws of our land. A Frenchman, German, Italian etc cant kill three bulls just because they are of a different Nationality, Neither can an Indian. It is poaching if it is on public property and We CAN beat them.

Fourth, It is glaringly obvious Tribes are not going to step up and be part of the solution, they like it the way it is (and what poor, poor abused Indian wouldn't love getting paid Tens of thousands of dollars a year to break the law) In Hood Canal a couple years ago, two tribal members held a white hunter at GUNPOINT for two hours, on PUBLIC property because they thought he had poached an elk...he hadn't, he was perfectly legal). I think every time we see a non tagged elk we stop the vehicle, hold the suspects if they are unable to produce a WDFW tag until the game warden shows up to make sure it hasn't been poached. Yes it will cause massive uproar...but that is exactly what we need right now. Once this gets into the media spotlight, and the massive poaching problem by the tribes becomes public,THE TRIBES PUBLIC PERCEPTION WILL BE THAT OF AN ABUSIVE HUSBAND...SUPPOSED TO BE PROTECTING THE SACRED FAMILY, BUT NOTHING MORE THAN A COWARDLY ABUSER BEHIND CLOSED DOORS......at that moment we start a campaign for everyone who has been offended by the tribes careless and wreckless abuse of the elk herds to boycot all things Indian. WDFW will have to address the problem before someone gets killed, and the indians will have to come to the table and agree to simply be part of the solution or watch their Casinos be boycotted. I will definately stand at the entrance to the REZ with boycott signs, and I bet a hundred thousand other sportsmen will as well.

So, next time I am in the Colockum you may read about me in the paper. I am going to hold the first person who cant produce a WDFW tag for an elk in their possession until WDFW arrives to document the incident and make sure the animal wasn't paoched. This will give me legal documentation to prove that someone was able to, based solely on RACE, get away with poaching an elk on public property, maintained by government management, and supported with public funds. Case open... WE CAN win this one. I dont see a Judge in the US who will open up the door for Racial and Class discrimination on public property, managed by public employees using public funds. WORST case I see the ruling being they can kill all they want on the REZ, are entitled to half the resource, but must obey government laws when on government property.

[3dsheetmetal]

I was just reading and re-reading this thread and some things struck me that are worth a second look.

First, I have yet to see a Native American on this thread step up and say "hey, obviously there is a problem, how can I help" It's been one empty, lame excuse after another.

Second, Why when a white person speaks their mind it is offensive, but rubbing poaching in our face is not? There is no need to chase the tail of "EQUAL" again and that taking all bulls is not an "EQUAL" sharing of the resource. That battle has been fought and won, despite somes un-willingness to apply this kindergarden level logic. (lets take 10 little pieces of candy, and 5 great big pieces of candy and put it in front of kindergardners. Lets give the 10 little ones to Johny and the 5 big ones to Sally. First Johnny is going to complain that Sally got all the big ones, then at recess Sally is going to say NEENER, NEENER, NEENER...I got all the big ones" Why...because even a knidergardner can see the resource was not divided "EQUALLY" and both parties damn well know it.

Third, Every time someone steps in and says, "hey, we are sick of this, lets find a way to get something done" An Indian jumps in with ...No, that wont work, Hey you will loose, Bad idea, that was already decieded etc, etc. I think they are wrong, and truly believe racial or Class discrimination CAN NOT be applied where public funds are being used to manage a public resource on public property. I do think they can on the REZ, but NO WAY on public property. Members of any other Nation must abide by the laws of our land. A Frenchman, German, Italian etc cant kill three bulls just because they are of a different Nationality, Neither can an Indian. It is poaching if it is on public property and We CAN beat them.

Fourth, It is glaringly obvious Tribes are not going to step up and be part of the solution, they like it the way it is (and what poor, poor abused Indian wouldn't love getting paid Tens of thousands of dollars a year to break the law) In Hood Canal a couple years ago, two tribal members held a white hunter at GUNPOINT for two hours, on PUBLIC property because they thought he had poached an elk...he hadn't, he was perfectly legal). I think every time we see a non tagged elk we stop the vehicle, hold the suspects if they are unable to produce a WDFW tag until the game warden shows up to make sure it hasn't been poached. Yes it will cause massive uproar...but that is exactly what we need right now. Once this gets into the media spotlight, and the massive poaching problem by the tribes becomes public,THE TRIBES PUBLIC PERCEPTION WILL BE THAT OF AN ABUSIVE HUSBAND...SUPPOSED TO BE PROTECTING THE SACRED FAMILY, BUT NOTHING MORE THAN A COWARDLY ABUSER BEHIND CLOSED DOORS......at that moment we start a campaign for everyone who has been offended by the tribes careless and wreckless abuse of the elk herds to boycot all things Indian. WDFW will have to address the problem before someone gets killed, and the indians will have to come to the table and agree to simply be part of the solution or watch their Casinos be boycotted. I will definately stand at the entrance to the REZ with boycott signs, and I bet a hundred thousand other sportsmen will as well.

So, next time I am in the Colockum you may read about me in the paper. I am going to hold the first person who cant produce a WDFW tag for an elk in their possession until WDFW arrives to document the incident and make sure the animal wasn't paoched. This will give me legal documentation to prove that someone was able to, based solely on RACE, get away with poaching an elk on public property, maintained by government management, and supported with public funds. Case open... WE CAN win this one. I dont see a Judge in the US who will open up the door for Racial and Class discrimination on public property, managed by public employees using public funds. WORST case I see the ruling being they can kill all they want on the REZ, are entitled to half the resource, but must obey government laws when on government property.

Well said your exactly right on.I believe we can win we just need to get organized and quit talking about what were going to do and just do it.I haven't been to an injun casino for about 6  years now, even missed last years christmas party cause it was at a casino.Have to start somewhere.

[Special T]

6X6 Here are a couple of things to consider.... All tribes are not the same, or equal... a man from one tribe has no say in what another tribe does... Stating that all natives are like the yakimas, would be like calling a Ukrainian a Russian, or a Puerto-Ricon a Mexican... The Puerto-Ricon or Ukrainian might have had sympathy for you until you equated them to whom you are mad at. 

I know a guy that has a farm off Lower green canyon Rd.... His Neighbor was out in the field ans saw a truck at his place... The truck with 2 guys drove away as he pulled up to his house, and the place had been robbed.... 2 weeks later he sees this same truck casing the area.. So he blocks the road, and pulls his shot gun on these 2 meat-sticks that had robbed his place... He told them to give him the drivers license, and then the guy Took off... So the farmer calls the sheriff so that they can catch the robbers... The farmer got arrested and tossed in the pokie for "Stealing" The mans drivers lic..   So if you want to play Cowboy and Indian with the Yakimas that's your business... If I were you I'd talk to a cop and or a Lawyer and put him on a retainer... If you don't Think the Yakimas wouldn't hire a lawyer to protect their guy, and Monkey Stomp your  you need to do some more thinking... I'm not sold on the whole EYES IN THE WOODS program but that is a lot safer way to do something and protect your instead of going Vigilante... If Vigilante Justice is what you seek, then you best not post anything about it and have a better Attouny on retainer With $$$ dedicated to saving your Bacon. 

[6x6rack]

Yea, we should probably be afraid to do anything. Guess I better take your advice and be loaded for bear if their intent is to "Monkey Stomp" my ass. Appreciate the concern T.

An Old man taught me many years ago that people try to influence action one of two ways. Leadership, and Fear.

Fear works like this, If you can make someone cower at the threat of bad, horrible things befalling them you can convince most to subject themselves to your way of thinking, or at least supress their own opinions, actions or words. How many times did Martin Luther King go to jail?

Leadership works differently. It surrounds itself with people who understand they have nothing to fear but fear its-self. What do I have to be afraid of exactly... stopping someone I believe is poaching and turning them in? Defending myself if they pull a gun on me or try to run me over? There are posts here where whites have turned in whites for poaching...we should cower because its an Indian? I believe they call that discrimination.

[6x6rack]

T,

Recieved your PM and last thread. I agree that we can't group all Indians together without the risk of offending some. I see guys like Coastal who appear to really care about the issue, and I have met many more just like him. In fact I would say they far out-number the bad apples. As I have said several times, I apolagize if they are offended, and regarding this issue my problem is with the Yaks, although I have seen many Tribes abuse the fish and game resources of our State.

It is unfortunate that the Boldt decision groups them all together, giving them as a group collective rights, and as such, collective responsibility. There is probably no way to single out the Yakima Tribe in a legal action. Something to look into though. Besides. as many have said it would utimately become a Federal issue and affect them all equally. In the End, My guess is that the States or Federal Government would not be allowed to practice discrimination based on race or class while enforcing any State or Federal laws on public lands, or in regards to any activity that is publicly managed or funded.

If they did find that Indians could be treated differently just because they are indians, we would have the mother of all back-up plans (thats why we would win in the first round) as we could petition under Constitutional law, and demand all Tribal Federal funding be stopped. Nothing they can do, as the first judge would have allowed special treatment based on race or class...which Constitunally can't be Federally funded or supported. They get special treatment based on race, they dont get money...they get no special treatment based on race or class and they get the money, but they get to hunt just like you and I, same rules, regulations, seasons and accountability when they are on public lands.

It would be too bad that just because they cant figure out some collective ways to participate in Statewide game management, all the tribes suffer in reputation and ultimately all will loose if this went to Federal court. Times have changed in the last 30 years, especially regarding Federal law as it applies to discrimination and public funds. I think we would win this round, one way or another.