Berger VLD HSM ammo

[jackelope]

I'm considering this ammo for my 300win mag in the future. For you bullet/ammo guru's out there...What am I gaining over my current 180 grain Nosler accubonds? I have not chrono'd my round in my rifle so I don't know how fast it is. My barrel is a 1:10 twist and is 26" long.  I'm not concerned about recoil. Just want to choose a good bullet for deer or elk that I typically hunt in open country where 300 yard or more shots would be/could be common. I've not been unhappy with the Accubond and don't really need to change, just looking at something different. I don't reload.

They offer a 185 grain VLD round:

HSM's Trophy Gold™ ammunition using Berger VLD bullets
 
Velocity:  3094 fps
 
Energy: 3933 ft/lbs
 
Barrel Length: 27.5"
 
Bullet B.C.: .549
 

They also offer a 210 grn version:

HSM's Trophy Gold™ ammunition using Berger VLD bullets.
 
Velocity: 3050 fps
 
Energy: 4339 ft/lbs
 
Barrel Length: 27 1/2"
 
Bullet B.C.: .631
 

They have a 168 grain but I suspect the difference would not be worth the change.

[MHWASH]

I have no personal experiance, but head over to 24HRcampfire. It's getting alot of press over there.

[GoldTip]

Jackelope, I haven't used their stuff, but I know my cousin has used quite a bit of it, and has handloaded the Berger's  quite a bit as well.  I've seen some of the shot's he's made and heard some of his stories, he's got the pics to back them up, he loves the bullets.  I would however run them thru a chrono as I would be hard pressed to believe they can get 3050fps with a 210gr bullet out of a 300 win mag.

[jeepasaurusrex]

130gr Berger VLD .270  Nuff said. 



My Howa loves this bullet. I have got my tightest groups so far with it. (5 touching @200)

[jjhunter]

Stick to the accubond for what you are doing.   I handload the 190 Berger VLD for my 13 lb 300 Win Mag.   I am getting 3110 fps out of a 27 1/2 Hart barrel.  It will shoot in the teens and is a consistent 1/4 MOA rifle.   I built it for shooting 600+ yards - mostly steel, but some hunting.

[jackelope]

Stick to the accubond for what you are doing.   I handload the 190 Berger VLD for my 13 lb 300 Win Mag.   I am getting 3110 fps out of a 27 1/2 Hart barrel.  It will shoot in the teens and is a consistent 1/4 MOA rifle.   I built it for shooting 600+ yards - mostly steel, but some hunting.

Thanks bud...that's the kind of info I was looking for. I will save my pennies till it comes time to ring some gongs.

[Antlershed]

Hey jeep, what powder are you using with those 130's in your .270? Thanks

[wastickslinger]

509er and I could not get the bergers to group worth a crap in our Tikka 7mm's. We tried many different bullets and the accubond was the tightest group. 

[MtnMuley]

HSM is the best factory ammo I would recommend.  As always, the key is, what shoots out of your gun.  Whether it accubond, scirocco, or the VLD.  Of the two choices you listed, either would be a good choice.  The 185s should do anything you'd need, but the huge BC of the 210 is going to prevail down range.  I use the 175 VLDs out of my 300RUM and couldn't be happier.  

[longrange7mm]

Bergers are extremely temperamental either your gun loves them or hates them! If it loves them then you will not be happier if it doesnt then go back to the accubonds. Its worth the 40 dollars for the bullets to give them a shot. or maybe some one on here that shoots them in 300 win would sell you 5 to try them? I shoot both I shoot a 300 gr berger and a 225 accubond out of my 338 RUM and they both shoot great out to 1000 the berger is alot more stable in High wind conditions though.  And I shoot a 115gr Berger out of my 2506 and they are flat impressive.
This is the lungs of one of my does last year at 711 with a 9 mph wind with the 115gr she was dead before she hit the ground

[jackelope]

What's the bullet performance like? Do they grenade when they hit or stay together or what?

[MtnMuley]

Absolutely no grenading.  Weight retention is great.  Maybe I should share the video of your last doe lr7mm....... She was dead on four legs.  

[bobcat]

Absolutely no grenading.  Weight retention is great.  Maybe I should share the video of your last doe lr7mm....... She was dead on four legs.  

What about if the shot is at 50 yards instead of 500? Will the bullet still stay together at the higher velocity?

[jackelope]

Absolutely no grenading.  Weight retention is great.  Maybe I should share the video of your last doe lr7mm....... She was dead on four legs.  

I've killed plenty of deer that did the boom-flop. That happens almost every time my buddy shoots one with Ballistic tips but they frag bad when they hit stuff.

[wastickslinger]

Absolutely no grenading.  Weight retention is great.  Maybe I should share the video of your last doe lr7mm....... She was dead on four legs.  

I've killed plenty of deer that did the boom-flop. That happens almost every time my buddy shoots one with Ballistic tips but they frag bad when they hit stuff.

Your accubond should stay together. I shot my buck this year with a 160g accubond at 75 yards and it was a double lung trough and through.

[luvtohnt]

This is great. I have been contemplating a change in ammo for my .300 Win. Mag as well. I currently shoot a 150 grain Hornady SP Interlock. I am going elk hunting in Wyoming next year and wanted to change to the Accubond in 165. I also want to try the lead free ones that Nosler makes. All this great info is very helpful, and I didn't even need to start a new thread. Thanks Jack for starting this, and thanks to all those who provided input.

Brandon

[longrange7mm]

Absolutely no grenading.  Weight retention is great.  Maybe I should share the video of your last doe lr7mm....... She was dead on four legs.  

yea she was like a bug that just found a car window lmfao. actually the 115 i recovered from my blacktails off side shoulder was a little disturbing. i will get a pic of that bullet. yea MtnMuley if you got that video downloaded go ahead and post it up here!

[jackelope]

I'm not too worried about the AB's and it's probably a silly topic for discussion anyway because there's nothing wrong with what I am currently using, but we were BS'ing at work yesterday about these bullets and the huge BC some of them carry and I figured it would make for good discussion. Plus I get curious about stuff and like to look at other possibilities now and then.
It seems that maybe the 7mag's get the most benefit from all aspects, which I assume is why it seems like the Best of the West guys really like shooting 7mag's.

[bobcat]

I think with the 300 mags you just need to go with the heaviest bullets available, for the higher BC's and better long range capability. I know that 30 caliber 200 grain Accubond has a very high BC.

[luvtohnt]

When you say BC are you reffering to Ballitic co-efficent?

Brandon

[longrange7mm]

I'm not too worried about the AB's and it's probably a silly topic for discussion anyway because there's nothing wrong with what I am currently using, but we were BS'ing at work yesterday about these bullets and the huge BC some of them carry and I figured it would make for good discussion. Plus I get curious about stuff and like to look at other possibilities now and then.
It seems that maybe the 7mag's get the most benefit from all aspects, which I assume is why it seems like the Best of the West guys really like shooting 7mag's.

there also using the 6.5x 284 alot anymore.. and yes the vld does perform well in some 7mm's i could not get a 2" group with them out of my first 7mm it was a Ruger but was a tack driver with the 160gr barnes triple shocks. Here is the 2506 115 gr bullet  from my blacktail @ 40 yds

[bobcat]

When you say BC are you reffering to Ballitic co-efficent?

Brandon

Yes.

[jeepasaurusrex]

Hey jeep, what powder are you using with those 130's in your .270? Thanks

That one had 56gr of H4831sc behind it.

[MtnMuley]

As for the 175 VLDs, I had a pass through at 855yds last week on a bull.  He never knew what hit him.

[jackelope]

I think with the 300 mags you just need to go with the heaviest bullets available, for the higher BC's and better long range capability. I know that 30 caliber 200 grain Accubond has a very high BC.

Higher than .631?
I can't get on any of the sites I could find that info on.

[WDFW-SUX]

Just shoot noslers P's or Barnes MRX's.....

Those VLD's are problems waiting to happen IMO.

B.C. is only part of the deal.

[bobcat]

The 200 grain Accubond is listed at .588.

[jackelope]

B.C. is only part of the deal.

I agree and I would likely just stay with the AB's for now. Definitely not making any changes at this stage in the game.

[MtnMuley]

SUX, just a question, but why are the VLD's a problem waiting to happen?

[WDFW-SUX]

They fragment.  if you shoot an elk with a 300 mag at 50 yards in the shoulder its going to blow up right?

[MtnMuley]

I'm not thinking they fragment too much at all.  A while back, I shot a buck at around 75 yds through both front shoulders and had a pass through.  I've yet to find out if they can hold together as well as the Scirocco bonded bullets I used to use, but so far, so good.  Maybe luck has been by my side.  They're nothing close to the ballistic tips I used to shoot out of my .270.  Worst fragmenting big game bullet ever. 

[scottL]

I'm on my first day here but this is one item I think i can chime in on.

140 gr. Berger VLDs in 6.5 caliber were my favorite bullet for about 2-3 years running and I and numerous other hunters had a chance to take a *slew* of does with it at an average of right about 225 yards. But frankly I just don't want to use them again and have started switching completely away from them at all ranges (was shooting them mostly out of my 15.1 lb rig built on an Accuracy International stock with a Nightforce 5.5-22 x56mm scope) regardless of the wind drift advantage.

In about a dozen animals taken by my family and 2 other families with this rig on doe patrol, we saw terminal performance that was good about 50 to 60% of the time but the rest of the time (despite the bullets, brass, powder and primers coming from the very same lot #s and printing great on paper) varied *wildly*, even when some of the does were shot on the same temps at very close to the same distances (less than 45 yards variance.) Some penciled right through with almost no blood trail at all and a long tracking job ensued; some blew up completely inside (only 2 small shards of the copper jacket and no lead frags recovered at all); one was an intentional neck shot that left a 4" hole 100% of the way through the neck (inlet and exit, plus even through the spine); 2 went in with an entrance hole about the size expected but didn't expand - then unexpectedly abruptly swerved nearly 90 degrees straight upward (thank goodness) about 10" and took out the spine; and 1 had an entrance hole so small (and no exit hole) that it took us nearly 15 minutes to figure out why the doe literally fell over instantly - just about surmised that we'd scared it to death! And yes, we were running the recommended rifling twist rate on this gun, at 1-in-8.5" in a Mike R 5C barrel...

Then I found out after last season (when I decided to switch) that my gun smith (who recommended them to me originally) was looking to switch away from them in various calibers too due to inconsistent performance. For example he shot 1 buck using (as I recall) his match .308 at about 200 yards and although it was a heart/lung shot the buck ran quite a ways. After tracking it he found that the bullet had entered exactly where he planned with the buck quartering away but the bullet didn't expand at all and instead inexplicably swerved up into the neck and lodged alongside the spine.

Since then I've started working up loads on other bullets. I figure if it's a range that I can't adequately judge that much of a wind difference for (between the VLDs and other bullets with more predictable terminal performance), I probably just shouldn't be shooting that far anyway given my personal ability level. No bullet performs 100% of the time but even 60% is too low for my comfort level. Just my personal opinion on and experience with the VLDs of course.

[MtnMuley]

Great info scottL.  Thanks and welcome to the site.