ATTENTION PEACHES RIDGE VIOLATORS

[rasbo]

gee if ya really want to get at the guy behind the gate,man up and wait for him to come out,and deal with mono e mono.Glueing a lock is bullcrap,Its no wonder there are bad outlooks on hunters

[DuckDr.Duke]

We talked with the Kittitas Co. Sheriff in our camp in the Naches unit on Labor Day weekednd this year. He said all the rds are closed and people will be ticketed if they are driving or wheeling behind them, FYI.

[woodrat]

Most areas in this state need some major cearcutting. Only about 1% of teh NF is logged any more due to the greenies filing alaw suit every time they try to do any logging

you look at google satellite photos of my neighborhood and it is very, very much more than 1% brown at any given time. I can assure you that we are not in "need" of more and bigger clearcuts.  And what is wrong with 1%, anyway? That represents a 100 year rotation, which might actually be enough time to grow some quality timber instead of the pulp grade crap they are milling 2x4s out of these days. Have you tried to buy a 2x12 lately? Not too easy to find one that doesn't have the pith and two bark edges in the same board, and yet that's what the floor of new houses are framed with. It's shameful. A 30 year rotation on a tree species that can live for 1000 years is ridiculous.

Not only that, but the immense mud runoff from big clearcuts clogs up salmon spawning grounds, too. During the last big rainstorm the Gray's was practically straight mud, due to some very large clearcuts from this summer that you can see from the highway, and a huge ongoing job further upriver. I'm not against all clearcutting, but the size and scale and steepness of the slopes they're doing it on is really over the top.

I don't know about all areas of the state, but the SW corner has never been a big wildfire region, and yet it seemed to have plenty of deer and elk at the time of first white people contact. I don't think we need to have 25-30 year rotations and 200 acre clearcuts all over the place in order to have game animals.

 

[gasman]

No disrespect but you sound like a 


Have you been to the NF lately, there are not fresh clearcuts 

Much of the area in SW WA is private timber company and most of your NF will found along the cascade's. There is so little clearing going on the NF land the animals are pushed to where the food is. You wan to see a more even spread of animals, "Checker Board Clear cut", not put it all in one area.
I do agree that land rape is not necessary, but to nearly stop cutting is reckless. The trees grow, they block the sunlight from hitting the grown, the plant growth on the ground (food source for most animals) dies off. The animals have to seek better food else where. pushing all the animals in to one area and causing food shortage for the winter and there starts the starvation. Just like we have every winter in the St Helens area.

Sorry for the random thoughts and going all over the board. Be back later, gotta go. 

[Skillet]

The local ATV club as been encouraged by the Ranger district to ride behind the gates to "put tracks up there to show use" so that those roads can be included in the travel management plan. 

That will land the some Ranger district in a lot of hot water if it's true... you sure the ATV club isn't just saying that to justify their toys and blowing by the guys that hoof it in?

[woodrat]

I'm sure I'll get roasted alive for saying this, but I don't consider the term "tree hugger" to be a bad thing. I've been known to hug a tree or two. I also have had a portable sawmill for over 15 years, and I cut lumber, have done a fair bit of logging work and have also been involved with hardwood sawmills and sustainable forestry efforts for years and years. I'm not categorically opposed to cutting trees for lumber, or even to the well-regulated practice of clearcutting. But I'm also not an out and out apologist and defender of corporate timber management either.

I don't spend a lot of time on NF land, and I haven't spent much time in the eastern part of the state, either. But I know what abusive logging practices look like, and I know what causes rivers to turn to mud whenever it rains hard. I know what crappy quality logs and lumber look like, too. There's no reason on earth besides the lack of fast, short term profit that land in my corner of the state could not be managed a LOT better, for better quality salmon streams AND better quality lumber, too. 100 year rotations would be a great place to start.

[woodswalker]

Woodrat,

As one who was run out of the forest products industry in the early 1990s (along with 2 brothers and out father), "treehuggers" are not my fav sort...

Simpson Timber HAD a 99 year Sustained-Yield agreement with the Forest Circus until they (FS) abrogated it in the 1990s.  That nearly DESTROYED my home town and a LOT of livelihoods.  I spent a LOT of time as young teen planting those clearcuts that Simpson worked.  Then spent time making them.

I have had friends killed and maimed by the  bastids who spiked trees and sabotaged equipment...I'd sooner see them go under a Cat into the roadbed.

[JackOfAllTrades]

I'll step out on the plank with Woodrat on this one.  Big clearcuts on steep slopes lead to more land errosion and silt in our streams. This is not good. I'm all for responsible logging. I'd like to see more opened up, and more 'selective thinning' in many parts of our state. I was in the old growth last weekend. I climbed up on and sat down on a windfall that was a good seven feet across and ate my lunch. What a waste for that tree not to have been harvested before mother nature took it down. It'll take another hundred years for that tree to rot back into the ground. We have lots of forest, both private and national that could be managed better. There's another thread about jobs here... I sure wish we could get through the politicians heads, to work with the industry and those... Not so nice fanatic tree hugger extremists, that we need to redevelope that industry in Washington instead of America buying lumber from Canada. I live at the northern border and constantly see trucks of lumber loads painted with Weyrhouser brand coming south. Sad.. really sad.

-Steve

[woodrat]

and I see ships all the time, loaded with all the nicest logs that we DO develop, headed downriver and out to sea towards Asia. And then people complain about lack of jobs. I wonder how many small, old-timey family sawmills could be kept busy with the amount of nice, clear logs that we ship overseas each day? I remember when I lived in No CA for a while, one of the larger family mills down there was importing logs from Canada to keep open. Seems stupid to ship nice logs overseas every day and then bring logs from canada to keep our own mills open. You'd think there would be a more sensible policy on that, but the corporations would rather sell raw logs than employ people.

There's always going to be people on both extreme ends of this issue: the radical, " we should never log anything" people, and the "every single acre of forest land should eventually be clearcut and turned into a mega tree farm" people. I'm neither. If you think I should be thrown under a Cat for not sharing exactly your views on forestry, well, gosh, I guess there's nothing more to say on the subject, then.

Not everyone who likes forests and better logging practices spikes trees.

But I'm afraid I've contributed to a massive thread de-railment here. I'll shut up now.

[Missing]

All of you are right, I have been stepping over my bounds and I do need to handle it in a different way. this has been a very frustrating hunting year for me, but reading all of you opinions gives me a little different perspective. as one said turn them in.  thanks for the lesson

[gasman]

Don't look at as a lesson learned but your mind was opened to other opions then yours, right or wrong.

If we all would have an open mind and look at both sides of the issues and not demand that our is teh one and only, then thing swill be better for all, BUT we know that is not going to happen. Some people are just to stubburn to see through anothers eyes.


Confertation is never good, for either party....

Don't assume......

If you believe there is wrong doing going on, document it and share it with the propper athorities........

Foresty is good, but to extreme, can be damaging..........

Lack of foresty is also damaging to wildlife...........

Just my  on this thread.

[logger]

Believe it or not I straddle the line also on timber mgt. you can blame the forest service for not having any balls, the leaflickers for using the spotted owl as a ploy, That all by itself is what caused a lot of smaller family owned mills out of bussiness. Just look at packwood lbr. surrounded by national forest's and coundn't get a log out of it. I don't believe the forest service needs to go back to the hey day of big clearcuts but they need to do something. And private forest is just that private and they are in it to make money and when they don't the ground gets chopped up and turned into housing,why reinvest into timber if there is no guarantee you will be able to harvest, thats where the fast rotation comes in and with out the big logs of the national forest mills were forced to retool to cut smaller timber. I invite anyone to come spend the day with me and look first hand at some good and not so good forest practices.

[BAR C3]

What Logger, Gasman, and Woodswalker said!
If anyone thinks the way were doing things now with limited logging, you need your head examined!

[spikehunter]

I once hiked 3 hours up past the second gate , and i do mean up walked around a corner and there was a bi#*h at her/there truck wearing purple sweats and purple sweatshirt I wrote down license # and she started chewing ME out. told me her husband was a logger and had keys. So then I bought a quad!) if ya can't beat em' join em'

[Missing]

Thanks Guys, like logger said around my area there is not a lot of logging anymore, what little logging is going on private ground to make room for homesites(but don't get me started on that) so most of the gates that I hunt behind have not had vehicle behind them for months until hunting season. I take the dog and do some scouting in July and August there are trees across the road, big rocks in the road. the I go in September and all the trees are cut and the road is full of tire tracks that you don't normally see on business vehicle. Can be really frustrating