Colockum 5pt MIN???

[fremont]

To what end?    So we can make sure that everyone can preserve their God-given right to have a Colockum elk camp every year?  So more illegal elk (e.g., sub-5 or sub-6 points) can die a lingering, painful death because someone either can't see or thought they can get away with it?

PERMIT ONLY, ANY BULL

[boonerboy]

I have written virtually these exact words on this forum/site several times and NO ONE has been able to answer my question.  To those who think that going to a 5pt restriction on elk is a bad idea, please answer me this question.  If going to 5pt minimum on bull elk would be so bad, why is it good to have a 3 pt restriction on Mule deer and everyone seems to think this creates bigger bucks.  Mule deer and Bull elk breed in much the same way.  The biggest/strongest/most mature buck/bull gathers a harem of does/cows and then he breeds them all, while fighting off several satellite bucks/bulls.  So someone, anyone please explain to me why it is better to have us kill off as many young bulls as possible, yet we only are allowed to kill the more mature mulie bucks?  One or the other approach is wrong, just isn't any two ways around it.   

the clockum elk herd gets way too much pressure. If opened up for mature bulls it would draw even more people and they would be slaughtered. There really isn't an area that I can think of where this would be true for deer. I agree with you that the spike only has the same affect on the same gene pool. I would be all for permit only,it would suck not to hunt every year but it is the best  solution.

[vtec]

I agree with reply 13 but also split the west side into north and south, Olympia /north stay north. If you live on the east side stay east.

[Viszla]

Open the elk season statewide, 3pt min.  Spread eveyone out a bit and give us a chance to shoot a big bull.  WDFW won't do it however cause they want the tag revenue.  It's all about the money, not about our elk/deer herds.

[Buckrub]

My turn to weigh in....
Since the state will never go permit only due to revenue and everybody understands the spike only is a PROVEN management failure system.
Instead of hunting spike general season everybody is hunting 5 point or better general season.... I would bet less bulls were harvested!.

Some questions I have
Do we think for a second that incidental kill doesn't happen on spike only?
Why is the permit only bull still in the 30 - 40% harvest ratio?
Why would one think a wiser mature bull would not survive general season when a dumb spike somehow survives?
Can't we block some targeted roads for animal security and leave motorized access available?
Why does the general season joe hunt scraps while the state auctions and caters to the rich?
How do other states manage by antler restriction successfully in limited cover ground?


We have a economically viable renewable resource that properly managed could provide opportunity for all not just the few.

[CoachNemo]

So I have never hunted elk (want to give it a try) so I may be way off base here but what if they went on an every other tag system. 

You purchase your tag for a bull elk, if you tag a bull that season the following season you can only tag out on a cow or choose not to purchase a tag at all.  No bull the previous year, you can get another bull tag.  It may hurt some revenue (hunters who only want bulls), but it could help the overall elk population.  Some hunters may just buy tags every other year and that's OK for the good of the population.

Thoughts?

[elkbuster]

OK.  How about only allowing those with an eastern wa. physical address purchase east side elk tags.  Let the west siders hunt the west side and let the east siders hunt the east side.    This would cut way back on the amount of hunters in the east side elk areas, alleviate the hunting pressure on the elk and make more elk hunters successful while increasing east side herds.  Then, make a few of the units on the east side 6 pt or greater.  I think I will run for Game commissioner!!!  

Well, if you do that, we might as well go one further...only Yakima county residents hunt in Yakima County...and so on.  

.......or, purchase a tag for a unit, bull only, and allow hunters to choose 2 units per season only and limit the amount of tags sold in those units if you have a more popular unit.  You cannot hunt the same unit in consecutive years.  I am just throwing out ideas to lower the hunting pressure that is the main cause of discontent for many hunters that I read about on a lot of threads on this site.



today

[GoldTip]

I'd personally like to see it go to an every other year system.  Double the price of the elk tag and make it a first come first served situation.  Figure out how many elk tags were sold this year, and only limit sales to one half that number for next year at double the price. Then no loss of money for the Game dept. and a better experience for hunters during the season with lower numbers of hunters in the woods during elk season.  Make it a brow tine requirement on bulls.  Still make it a draw for cows, and the guys who don't have a tag that year can't apply.  Now the guys who get the tag the first year, don't get one the next year, so guys can still make plans to have their traditional elk camp with the same guys as always, they just need to decide if they want their camp to be an odd number year tag holder, or an even number year tag holder, which will take a little more planning, but still makes it a possibility to have the same guys in camp every year.  It would not bother me at all to go to hunting elk every other year and pay a bit more for a better quality experience.

[chester]

  It would not bother me at all to go to hunting elk every other year and pay a bit more for a better quality experience.

Then why don't you just save up, and go out of state?

Goldtip....your plan made great sense. up until you said raise prices. they are too high already. we are residents in this state and should not pay out of state prices. if they doubled it i couldnt afford it. i can barely afford it now. and i hunt very close to home.

[C-Money]

I agree with Runamuk, She makes a good point! I would like to see a 5pt min. I still frown on locking up gates on roads. Patrole the roads and enforce laws on the books, but dont lock me out of public land, I have done nothing wrong.

[GoldTip]

  It would not bother me at all to go to hunting elk every other year and pay a bit more for a better quality experience.

Then why don't you just save up, and go out of state?

Goldtip....your plan made great sense. up until you said raise prices. they are too high already. we are residents in this state and should not pay out of state prices. if they doubled it i couldnt afford it. i can barely afford it now. and i hunt very close to home.

The answer to number one is , I do go out of state.  Every year and most years go to 2 other states.  But would also like to have a quality experience with an opportunity to take a bull wihout being over run with hunters here in this state.

The answer to number 2 is that most spend more than the cost of doubling the price of an elk tag on a half a tank of gas to simply even go hunting.  The current cost of an elk tag alone is $43 for a resident.  Are you honestly telling me if the price was twice that for the opportunity to hunt any bull with a brow tine in any unit east side/west side tag with only half the number of people in the woods with you that you would simply quit hunting elk if the tag cost $86?

[chester]

The answer to number one is , I do go out of state.  Every year and most years go to 2 other states.  But would also like to have a quality experience with an opportunity to take a bull wihout being over run with hunters here in this state.

The answer to number 2 is that most spend more than the cost of doubling the price of an elk tag on a half a tank of gas to simply even go hunting.  The current cost of an elk tag alone is $43 for a resident.  Are you honestly telling me if the price was twice that for the opportunity to hunt any bull with a brow tine in any unit east side/west side tag with only half the number of people in the woods with you that you would simply quit hunting elk if the tag cost $86?
[/quote]

Honestly. I think i would be forced to. if i didnt make hunting a priority i wouldnt have gone this year. sure some people can afford deisels and 5th wheels. and to buy out of state licenses. I cant. and i know many others who cant. if i go east im on a friends couch. to hunt elk im at my parents. Im laid off for the 3rd winter in a row. $43 is about what it cost me in my truck for a week of elk hunting. You sound like you want to make this a rich mans sport? what isnt much to you, is alot of money to some of us. elk alone is $45.70 btw.i still have the reciept. if you want what you call "quality" go where it is. I like having the chance at a bull without paying for travel, outfitter, 1k for outta state license and tag. I sepend time learning the elk i hunt, where they live and how they respond to pressure. if you want to limit people go permit only. dont raise the price so only those who are well off can afford to hunt. when i went to arizona for school i drew a tag. total cost as a resident? $25.50. I dont think you would say they dont offer "quality" hunts. making it so people who make under $30k a year cant hunt isnt gonna fix anything.the ones with money are the ones who dont leave camp or ride quads because they can afford such things. I park the truck and walk.saves gas 

[GoldTip]

The answer to number one is , I do go out of state.  Every year and most years go to 2 other states.  But would also like to have a quality experience with an opportunity to take a bull wihout being over run with hunters here in this state.

The answer to number 2 is that most spend more than the cost of doubling the price of an elk tag on a half a tank of gas to simply even go hunting.  The current cost of an elk tag alone is $43 for a resident.  Are you honestly telling me if the price was twice that for the opportunity to hunt any bull with a brow tine in any unit east side/west side tag with only half the number of people in the woods with you that you would simply quit hunting elk if the tag cost $86?

Honestly. I think i would be forced to. if i didnt make hunting a priority i wouldnt have gone this year. sure some people can afford deisels and 5th wheels. and to buy out of state licenses. I cant. and i know many others who cant. if i go east im on a friends couch. to hunt elk im at my parents. Im laid off for the 3rd winter in a row. $43 is about what it cost me in my truck for a week of elk hunting. You sound like you want to make this a rich mans sport? what isnt much to you, is alot of money to some of us. elk alone is $45.70 btw.i still have the reciept. if you want what you call "quality" go where it is. I like having the chance at a bull without paying for travel, outfitter, 1k for outta state license and tag. I sepend time learning the elk i hunt, where they live and how they respond to pressure. if you want to limit people go permit only. dont raise the price so only those who are well off can afford to hunt. when i went to arizona for school i drew a tag. total cost as a resident? $25.50. I dont think you would say they dont offer "quality" hunts. making it so people who make under $30k a year cant hunt isnt gonna fix anything.the ones with money are the ones who dont leave camp or ride quads because they can afford such things. I park the truck and walk.saves gas 
[/quote]

Well if you paid 45.70 for your elk tag then your were charged a 2.50 fee for wherever you bought it as I just checked the wdfw website again and the elk tag is listed at 43.20.  Also, I don't think that someone who loves to hunt whether they make $30k or 300K is probably going to stop hunting when the elk tag doubles in price.  If that would force you out, well that is very unfortunate, but I'm here to tell you that the cost of those licenses are gonna be double in price long before yours or mine's wages are going to double, so you may either want to make some different choices with your money or start looking for a cheaper sport.  At 91.40 for an elk tag (double the price you paid for your tag) it would still be the cheapest thing you could possibly do in this state or any state for an entire week, and the experience would be greater with less hunters, there would be more good bulls harvested as well as the younger bulls having a chance to grow up.  Heck as noted in another thread, take a look at skiing and see what it would cost for a week.

Trust me, the last thing I want to do is make this a rich mans sport, I want the experience in this state, with this states population of hunters and this states population of game, to be better for everyone.  The only way to accomplish that and still give good opportunity as well as not cut the moneys to the F&G would be to increase the cost of the tag.  That or we can continue to bellyache about the current number of hunters, the lack of animals, the over crowding at popular spots just like we do now.

[chester]

Like i said before, i figured out how to use pressure to an advantage. But i just noticed on another thread there will be an increase as of next year. As things look with the economy and myself looking to find another job. and if i find one who knows if it will last? seems like my elk hunting career lasted 15yrs and has another 5days in it. you keep saying fewer hunters? thats making it a rich mans sport so only a few can afford it. i thought we were trying to grow the sport? not push people out of it? the wdfw will piss money away no matter how much you give them. if you take money away maybe they will spend wiser. as far as decisions with my money? well i was unexpectedly laid off with about 60% of the employees where i worked. without warning we were let go last month. not much i can do about that. wasnt my call. and ive been looking for a new job since. i bought my tags before that. and im trying my hardest to fill it. the extra meat will go a long way. sorry to hear that you are against this. i figured hunting should be open to all who enjoy it. not just those who have some saved in reserve and want bigger antlers. for me ill shoot the unlucky bull who crosses my path and had the misfortune of growing browtines and forking above his ear.  good luck to you on your hunts. ill have to do some serious thinking about next year. hope you can pull that 350" or whatever bull you want at the expense of other sportsmen.

[GoldTip]

Like i said before, i figured out how to use pressure to an advantage. But i just noticed on another thread there will be an increase as of next year. As things look with the economy and myself looking to find another job. and if i find one who knows if it will last? seems like my elk hunting career lasted 15yrs and has another 5days in it. you keep saying fewer hunters? thats making it a rich mans sport so only a few can afford it. i thought we were trying to grow the sport? not push people out of it? the wdfw will piss money away no matter how much you give them. if you take money away maybe they will spend wiser. as far as decisions with my money? well i was unexpectedly laid off with about 60% of the employees where i worked. without warning we were let go last month. not much i can do about that. wasnt my call. and ive been looking for a new job since. i bought my tags before that. and im trying my hardest to fill it. the extra meat will go a long way. sorry to hear that you are against this. i figured hunting should be open to all who enjoy it. not just those who have some saved in reserve and want bigger antlers. for me ill shoot the unlucky bull who crosses my path and had the misfortune of growing browtines and forking above his ear.  good luck to you on your hunts. ill have to do some serious thinking about next year. hope you can pull that 350" or whatever bull you want at the expense of other sportsmen.

Your absolutely right and I'm not entirely sure how you spotted it so well, you are incredibly astute.  I am a fat cat hunter who makes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.  I truly have no idea how to hunt because I make so much money and I would prefer if all the poor people would simply quit hunting so that they would not get in the way of my diesel truck pulling my toyhouler loaded with four wheelers.  I would like the woods completely to myself so that anyone who is poor or has been laid off simply has no chance at all to feed their family.  I just wish the danged fish and game would pave the roads into the places where I unload my quads to hunt, I truly am tired of having to pay someone to wash my truck and trailer when I get home.  I hope to only ever kill huge animals which I waste because they taste awful and hang the horns around my house.  I do generally invite other rich people over to the house though so that they can compliment me on what a great hunter I must be.  Your good, you picked me right out.