Colockum 5pt MIN???

[bobcat]

Yes I have hunted Oregon, for both deer and elk, and I'm familiar with their permit system. I don't know if Washington would do it the same as Oregon, but to me, SOME management is much better than NO management, which is what we currently have. With permit only elk hunting, the number of hunters can be controlled by GMU. As it is now, the WDFW has no control on how many people hunt in each GMU. What kind of management is that?  

[Curly]

NEUTRAL: Probably about the same amount of bulls would be harvested under this plan as today.  Only instead of us harvesting them as "True Spikes" they would be harvested as mature 5pts or 6pts.

NEGATIVE:  Because of high road densities and the openess of the terrain it is doubtful that there would be many trophy bulls in that unit.  A 300" bull would probably be a HUGE bull there.  Because the high harvest rates of "True Spikes" would most likely transfer over to a high harvest rate of mature bulls.  Also unless the entire East Side went to 5pt or 6pt minimum the Colockum would have WAY too many hunters in it.  But then again why not have the whole west side other than a few units go to 5pt or 6pt minimum 

POSITIVE:  The positive thing is that there would likely be more bulls under this system than there is now.  Plus people would have a better quality of a hunt going after MATURE bull elk rather than baby spikes.

I think you need to add the neutral one to the negative column.  You need the mature bulls for breeding, not less.  If it is true that the same amount of bulls would be harvested under a 5pt min as under the true spike rules, then wouldn't it mean that there will be fewer bulls left for breeding?

How long can the herd survive with most of the breeding bulls being taken out.  

I think the best option is for permit only for that GMU and maybe all of Eastern WA.

[Buckrub]

@Bobcat....

I have spoken with the Dept. many times and they are unwilling to make a change based on revenue... and that means "no management period".

I would be in total agreement to an actual permit system that made sense.
 Many hunters see the permits as a easy way to kill a big bull without the effort, regardless of the thousands of hunters who just want a chance to hunt and get away from the stress of life.

Ask yourself if you want a "quality hunt" or "quality animal" and how to achieve both without disregarding others hunters.

I opt for the quality hunt first with opportunity for quality animal IF I work harder and smarter than the average hunter, most good hunters now how to use hunting pressure to their advantage.

If we agree the spike only management doesn't work and the state is unwilling to go permit only or eliminate general season why shouldn't we be hunting antler restriction?... less permits sold?  Not rocket science.

[colockumelk]

If it went to permit o ly on the east side and they issued permits based on harvest percentages. Then they would give out thousands of permits.

When I was writing my paper the WDFW told me that if the Colockum went permit only they would give out 1000 permits!!!  That's just the colockum. If the Yakima GMUs went permit o ly you could add another 2-3000 permits as well. They also said these numbers were based on a 40% success rate and the permit numbers would likely increase every year. FYI the state with the highest success rate is Wyoming with 30%. Most states are 15-25%

So if it went to permit only you'd get to hunt every other year or so for any bull. Then if you add in the cow permits it would most likely be you'd get to hunt 2 out of 3 years.

[EDT]

Thats what Im talking about.

[chester]

Id like to see them do one of two things. If they go permit only, make it statewide any bull
Or go 3pt min statewide.
just for the sake of simplifying things for the average hunter.
They seem to try and do alot of micromanaging that makes the problem worse for the most part.

[Elkaholic daWg]

 And here's another thing to think about on this . If they gave out 1000 permits, what would would be the group size limit? I could live with the permit thing. But let's make it even a little more different. Even W/O permit they'd have a better chance of survival. But we NEED the tribe thing to end
 Does anyone here remember when elk season started on Sundays? or Mondays? I could live with that. Hell we did it for years! we could also shorten the seasons to like start on Sunday or Monday and end on Saturday.

[fremont]

What's laughable is those that refuse to give up the guarantee of a general season elk hunt every year so they can go to elk camp and party with their buddies every year.

Permit only is the best answer to provide quality bulls to hunt in good numbers.  I don't think a person will have to wait 10yrs to draw.  Even if it was every 5 years I would be happy with that.  I haven't really hunted elk since 1994 because that is the last time I drew an any bull tag.  I don't hunt for spikes or cows so having a chance at any bull every few years would be just fine with me.

+1 Well said.

[colockumelk]

And here's another thing to think about on this . If they gave out 1000 permits, what would would be the group size limit? I could live with the permit thing. But let's make it even a little more different. Even W/O permit they'd have a better chance of survival. But we NEED the tribe thing to end
 Does anyone here remember when elk season started on Sundays? or Mondays? I could live with that. Hell we did it for years! we could also shorten the seasons to like start on Sunday or Monday and end on Saturday.

Excellant points. Also one thing to remember is if an area goes permit only the state has WAY WAY WAY more leverage in controlling the tribes.

[Buckrub]

If 1000+ permits are given out for the clockum what would be the difference from a general season?
1000+ permits for any bull?? then there will be no herd...1000 permits with antler restriction? might as well be a general season.

Control the tribes? cmon...really? put out a 1000 permits for the clockum and the tribes will slaughter or be in court stopping you.

[colockumelk]

That's just what the WDFW said. 1000 permits. Which would be about 1/3 to 1/4 of how many people currently hunt the colockum. So with a 20-30% success rate this would keep the harvest ocelot at or below what it is today. The 1000 permits also didn't include cow permits.

And the Boost decision says the state can regulated tribal harvest in the name of conservation. Permit only fits that description.

If they wont do permit only I'd like to see it go 5 pt minimum since spike only doesn't work. AND...... IF HE WDFW ISNT GONNA PROPERLY MANAGE THE COLOCKUM AND...... is obvious that the only people that they are gonna allow to harvest branch bulls are the Yakamas then F$#& it we might as well kill 5 pt and 6 PTs instead of spikes and let us have quality hunting instead of the pathetic "hunting" we currently have. WE NEED TO EXPECT MORE FROM THE WDFW!!!

[alanger]

Id like to see them do one of two things. If they go permit only, make it statewide any bull
Or go 3pt min statewide.
just for the sake of simplifying things for the average hunter.
They seem to try and do alot of micromanaging that makes the problem worse for the most part.

That still doesnt help the fact with too many cows to bull ratio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats the whole F**** up part about the naneum unit!!!!!!!! and quilomene, theres too many cows to bulls, a high percentage of these cows arent getting bred, so its now helping the herd having all these extra cows, They need to put out like 20 cow permits for naneum to cut back on some jar heads

[deleted BGS]

I love the idea!

[GreggHunts2hard4u]

even if it was "5pt Min" an the bull to cow ratio got way better. the indians would have an even better shooting gallery of bulls to shoot at. and they take enough big breeding bulls to destroy the herd already. it NEEDS to be "permit only" for a few years so the breeding bulls can get their f*** on and rebuild the herd to what it used to be before all this bull ishhh.  even cow permit only would make a big difference.  something needs to change and no one can seem to put their finger on what it is. its depressing. my grandpa hunted colockum for 60yrs b4 he passed and my dad has hunted for 40+ and i have been hunting it for 16yrs (im 24). never would i have thought it would have came down to "true spike only" hell even "spike only".  idk yall but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they closed the colockum for a few years to better the herd.  im a young hunter and want to be able to take my kids up there to hunt one day in the future.

[greenhead_killer]

they really need to close a majority of these roads around the clockum unit, teanaway area. i spend a lot of my free time in these areas as i am from the burg, and have noticed the drop in numbers over the years. the indians are definitley a huge reason why these areas are becoming death grounds for the elk, its easy access and a true trophy area(for now). two years ago, they went in and shot 47 BIG BULLS out of these units. how are we, as paying sportsman/hunters, supposed to compete with this? its hard enough for a wa resident hunter to legally find these animals and be successful and then have it shot up before after during our seasons is insane. guys that want to hunt it that bad, will find a way in. i spend enough time in my truck to get to my spots, then its all on foot from there. the mindset would not change if they closed more roads( for lazy people anyhow). go to a 5pt min, sure, but you have to make it more difficult for the tribe to get there. they have the govnr in their back pocket and can get away with masscres for now. close  up the expansive road system, turn it up to a 5pt min or how bout a 5pt only, (no different than a spike only type of thing) and watch it return to prominence. just my thoughts