I try to shoot them in the shoulder, but running dogs are a bit tough. I'm not trying to make any money on the pelts, I just like to have them. I got hooked up with 10,000 acres near John Day, OR to hunt and the owner says that if I don't shoot a dog or cat when I see them he's going to be pissed at me. He runs a cattle ranch and hates dogs and cats. I'll try the cheaper Hornady's and see how they work. Thanks