Fawn Mortality!!!

[Kain]

I chose coyote for the most fawn predation but cougars kill deer and elk all year long.  I just dont think coyote, bobcat, and bears are killing very many adult deer and elk.  The biggest impact I see on deer and elk populations down here is lack of logging.  We also have a very large predator population down here.  I saw more bear sign this year than ever in my 20+ years of hunting.  Same goes for coyote.  Less than half the doe's I have seen still had fawns with them.  Between all of these things and a potentially harsh winter coming the deer and elk are going to have a hard time.


Coyote bear and bobcats cannot hunt with this kind of efficiency on adult ungulates. 
Cougar catches an elk

The WDFW needs to get their crap together and get some REAL cougar population numbers.  This 2000 cats number is complete BS.  I cut a day old cougar track this weekend.  My dad calls me on the radio and says he just cut one also a couple of mile away.  Two different cats both were following the elk around.  Saw one set of deer tracks.  That is some scary numbers for you.

[haus]

In his blacktail book Scott Haugen said DHLS was responsible for 80-90% decline in some blacktail populations. Unfortunately he left out the fact that predator populations were already on the rise around the time that DHLS started to hit the blacktail populations.

[Kain]

In his blacktail book Scott Haugen said DHLS was responsible for 80-90% decline in some blacktail populations. Unfortunately he left out the fact that predator populations were already on the rise around the time that DHLS started to hit the blacktail populations.

Crazy I have not seen one single case of it around here.  Lets hope its stays that way.

[Bean Counter]

Just how has this thread grown to two pages without one mention of wolves? 

[Special T]

WOLVES! 

[Humptulips]

Just how has this thread grown to two pages without one mention of wolves? 

Mainly because wolves are a nonfactor in most of WA. Maybe in the future but not now. Western WA has the potential to produce a lot of black tails and it doesn't. We can't blame wolves for that. They aren't here, at least except for a rare wanderer.

The hair loss syndrome, I don't see it anymore and I never did see a lot of it. I have a friend in town that sees it in deer in town. More deer in town then any where else. They can get away from some of the predators by hugging the city.

[haus]

Just how has this thread grown to two pages without one mention of wolves? 

Mainly because wolves are a nonfactor in most of WA. Maybe in the future but not now. Western WA has the potential to produce a lot of black tails and it doesn't. We can't blame wolves for that. They aren't here, at least except for a rare wanderer.

The hair loss syndrome, I don't see it anymore and I never did see a lot of it. I have a friend in town that sees it in deer in town. More deer in town then any where else. They can get away from some of the predators by hugging the city.

Scott pointed out that lowland populations could potentially handle the disease better due to the fact that they aren't as exposed to surviving harsh winter weather as compared to the migratory populations.

I'm not trying to make excuses for predators here, just saying we can't rule out the impact of DHLS.

The land I hunt near Eatonville has a dismal blacktail population, I'd say the bucks probably outnumber the does, but they're all hiding in the thickest cover they can find. I haven't seen a fawn since July either. I'd venture to say predators are the primary culprit, as for which one I'm not sure. I know the number of bears, coyotes, and bobcats in the area is rather high. As for cougars 

[Practical Approach]

Check out page 11 on this report.

http://access.nwifc.org/wildlife/documents/makah-fawn-report-final.pdf

[Kain]

Check out page 11 on this report.

http://access.nwifc.org/wildlife/documents/makah-fawn-report-final.pdf

Wow thanks for that.  I will try to read the rest of it also.



Even if the vast majority of unknown predation was coyotes that would still be less than cougars.

[Alan K]

 

Thanks PA

[haus]

If only 30% of fawns survive that doesn't leave *censored* for us to hunt.

[Kain]

If only 30% of fawns survive that doesn't leave *censored* for us to hunt.

I will have to read the rest of the study but from own personal observations, of doe's that still had fawns, 30% is not far off.  Might need to take a year or two off the deer hunting and concentrate on predators.  I will see how my family feel about that also.

[grundy53]

Fawns- i would say coyotes followed closely by bear and bobcat.

Adults- i would say cougar.

[Curly]

On two separate occasions this year while muzzleloader deer hunting, I witnessed adult does being chased hard by a single coyote.  One time was in Capitol Forest during early deer season and the next time was on Thanksgiving in the Lincoln unit.  

Plus, I've also seen a fawn hoof in coyote *censored* and numerous times I've seen hair in their crap that is probably deer hair.

Also, while out in the woods all spring and summer I saw lots of fawns and by September when I hunted 9 days straight in a lot of the areas where I'd seen fawns, I think I only saw one fawn with a doe and lots of does that were alone.  So, I definitely think the coyotes are having an impact.

I've shot a couple coyotes in the past, but never really targeted them.  But now the coyotes are really starting to piss me off. Time to start blasting them.

WDFW should only issue a deer tag if the hunter first brings in a coyote tail.......  (Sort of a bounty.  Just have to kill one to be able to purchase a deer tag.)

[Special T]

I think coyotes affect deer populations more, but we hunters can effectively do more by killing one couger... If one couger  eats a 50 deer a year, One a week aprox, and coyotes might bet one a year per yote then you have to kill aprox 50 coyotes a year to make an equil contribution... Becasue coyotes are so dadptable and such prolific breeders you would have to kill a ton of yotes EVERY year, when it take only 1 couger... and if that couger is a female then you made a bigger impact..  You also take into acct that more people are willing dedicate hunting time to couger or bear... And by saying that i mean in the woods not in the sage... Its hard to kill yotes in the woods... or anything else for that matter when you likely have to have the animal with in 100yrds to see the thing... Not like gunning them down in the basin over flat land and sparce cover.... just my