Non-toxic shot requirement Jan 1 2011

[Cougeyes]

Haven't seen this posted yet, but beginning Jan 1 2011 non-toxic shot is required at quite a few state wildlife areas. 

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/nontoxic_shot/

[sisu]

I shoot steel 99% of the time as I like to jump shoot ducks with upland hunting so is does not effect me at all. Got a ton of #6 lead that I use in the mountains for grouse.

[floatinghat]

I think it sucks as I have a number of older doubles that are not steel proofed. 

[bobcat]

There are non-toxic alternatives other than steel that can be used in your older double barreled shotguns. Myself, I have a lot of lead that I think I'm gonna have to go out and do some crow hunting with, or something, before it's no longer allowed for anything.   

[wildweeds]

Classic Doubles shells are the way to go for your non steel proofed shooters,I shoot them in my .410.The downside is that they are pretty expensive

I think it sucks as I have a number of older doubles that are not steel proofed. 

[CP]

You can have the chokes on the older guns opened up so they can shoot steel.  It costs about $85 or so per barrel.  Finding a decent gunsmith that will do the work in a reasonable amount of time can be a challenge.

[sisu]

You can have the chokes on the older guns opened up so they can shoot steel.  It costs about $85 or so per barrel.  Finding a decent gunsmith that will do the work in a reasonable amount of time can be a challenge.

And if you reload steel there are suggestions for protecting your shotgun. You load by vol. so when using my single stage reloader I check the wad to make sure the shot is not too high. One of the suggestions I received from folks here and in my reading. All my hunting shotguns were pre-steel, but I had chokes installed. Happy as a clam.

BTW I see talk of shot size for steel. I will not use any thing but #4 for all upland and jump shooting, but if I am sitting in a blind and doing nothing but duck hunting then I'll go to #2 and BB for geese.

[10Key]

The most frustrating part of this restriction for isn't the change itself, but the lack of availability of alternatives. I have searched all season for upland sized steel shot (5/6/7) and didn't find any on the west side (Cabela's/Wholesale Sports, etc.). I finally found some in Tri-Cities at Grigg's (I love that store) of all places. I sure hope sporting goods stores pick up on this and start offering and stocking upland loads in non-lead varieties.

[bobcat]

I think #4 steel shot would be adequate for most upland bird hunting. I think the rule of thumb has always been to go up two sizes from what you'd use in lead, to compensate for the lighter weight of the steel shot. So if you normally use #6 lead, #4 in steel would be the equivalent.

[CP]

I won’t use smaller than #6 steel on anything but clays and I’ll only use #6 on dove and quail sized birds.  #4 or bigger for grouse/chukar/pheasant. 

I shot a grouse last season with a #6 steel shell at about 20 yards.  Hit him in the back and the back of the head and he went right down.  When I got back to the truck I laid him on the tailgate and after a few seconds he got up and flew away.

Steel sucks.  The small stuff does not penetrate.  Go up at least two sizes from what you would use in lead.  One oz of #4 steel is not overkill for quail.

[bobcat]

I shot a grouse last season with a #6 steel shell at about 20 yards.  Hit him in the back and the back of the head and he went right down.  When I got back to the truck I laid him on the tailgate and after a few seconds he got up and flew away.

 

[T-Bone]

Haven't seen this posted yet, but beginning Jan 1 2011 non-toxic shot is required at quite a few state wildlife areas. 

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/nontoxic_shot/

Thank you for the link as in the printed regulations those additional areas were not to go non-toxic until the 2011 - 2012 Season.

[Cougeyes]

So the gun i want to use is a 20 gauge Armsport A.V.M. over under.  Shooting steel shot through this gun would most likely ruin the barrel?  I've ruined the barrel before by using the wrong choke in a 12 gauge but this gun doesn't have a choke, curious what people may think.

[wildweeds]

HUH?...........All guns have a "choke" it may only be skeet but it's still somewhat constricted as compared to bucked off with a hacksaw and the burr filed down.If your gun has fixed chokes and is I/C and Mod when you shoot steel through them it's going to pattern like MOD and FULL would with lead,if your shooter has fixed chokes it should be stamped on the barrells.If not  stamped you'll need to measure them with an inside micrometer and consult a chart,I don't think there is a trick for 20 like there is for a twelve gauge with a dime.

So the gun i want to use is a 20 gauge Armsport A.V.M. over under.  Shooting steel shot through this gun would most likely ruin the barrel?  I've ruined the barrel before by using the wrong choke in a 12 gauge but this gun doesn't have a choke, curious what people may think.

[CP]

You can measure your choke with an inside caliper or there are specifically made choke guides.  There is usually one hanging somewhere around every shooting range or the range-master will have one.

Nominal 20g bore size = .615”

American standard 20g choke sizes:
Constriction    Designation    Pattern
.000" - .001"    cyl    40%
.002" - .004"    skeet    45%
.005" - .011"    imp cyl    55%
.012" - .019"    mod    60%
.020" - .026"    imp mod    65%
.027" - .033"    full    70%

If your barrels are Damascus you can not shoot steel form them.  I’ve been told by at least 2 gunsmiths that you can safely shoot #2 and smaller steel from a fixed IM choke, BB and smaller from a Mod, everything from an IC.   

[mjbskwim]

Funny thing about steel over lead is I'm guessing the steel will rust and kill a bird as fast as the lead will,when in his guts.

[Cougeyes]

HUH?...........All guns have a "choke" it may only be skeet but it's still somewhat constricted as compared to bucked off with a hacksaw and the burr filed down.If your gun has fixed chokes and is I/C and Mod when you shoot steel through them it's going to pattern like MOD and FULL would with lead,if your shooter has fixed chokes it should be stamped on the barrells.If not  stamped you'll need to measure them with an inside micrometer and consult a chart,I don't think there is a trick for 20 like there is for a twelve gauge with a dime.

Sorry I meant to say it does not have a removable choke, this gun was used for trap shooting only but i find it works very well for upland game.  I just wouldn't want to ruin the barrel and dont have a clue whether or not steel would ruin it.

[dawei]

Sorry I meant to say it does not have a removable choke, this gun was used for trap shooting only but i find it works very well for upland game.  I just wouldn't want to ruin the barrel and dont have a clue whether or not steel would ruin it.

If it's a trap gun it will have a tight full choke - DO NOT SHOT ANY STEEL THROUGH IT!!!!!

[bobcat]

It's not a trap gun if it's a 20 gauge. Trap guns are only 12 gauge. It may have been used for skeet.

[mebco09]

Not sure if it has been addressed yet, but if a gun is not marked for steel, I wouldn't use steel in it.  I have a few older shotguns that I had to put Briley chokes in so that I could use them with steel.

You shouldn't assume that it is OK if the choke is open (IC or CYL).  You might do damage to an older shotgun that has some collector value.

Some older guns (later model winchester 101s) were ok from the factory with steel, and are NOT marked so, but winchester says they can.  Browning specifically says that their superposed shotguns should not be used with steel. 

 

[Balladeer]

Not sure if it has been addressed yet, but if a gun is not marked for steel, I wouldn't use steel in it.  I have a few older shotguns that I had to put Briley chokes in so that I could use them with steel.

You shouldn't assume that it is OK if the choke is open (IC or CYL).  You might do damage to an older shotgun that has some collector value.

Some older guns (later model winchester 101s) were ok from the factory with steel, and are NOT marked so, but winchester says they can.  Browning specifically says that their superposed shotguns should not be used with steel. 

 

[floatinghat]

My issue is the expense with my older doubles.  I can load, Nice, Bismuth or...  I won't shoot steel through them.    Now, I also expect that I will be able to add to the safe and save some $$$ in the future.

[mebco09]

My issue is the expense with my older doubles.  I can load, Nice, Bismuth or...  I won't shoot steel through them.    Now, I also expect that I will be able to add to the safe and save some $$$ in the future.

Where are you finding bismuth for reloading? 

[floatinghat]

I'll look I had a contact.  I will look for his contact info and PM you if I can find it but it will be a while I am traveling for work the next couple weeks.

[Gobius]

Where are you finding bismuth for reloading? 

www.precisionreloading.com

They have bismuth, hevi-shot, and nice shot for reloading.