winchester xp3 bullets..

[MountainWalk]

has anyone shot this bullet? not at targets but game.. im so pissed that win stopped production of the fail safe bullets. if you ask me, this was THE BEST big game bullet for NA..

god i hate boat tail bullets.. what a hoax...

i had great results with 165 gr failsafes in 06 and 230 gr in 338 win mag.. still clinging to a few of the 338's

[Intruder]

Never shot em.  On the surface they look to be a different flavor of the Fail-Safe or a Barnes knock-off to some degree.  I'd suspect that they'd perform similiarly to the F-S.  If you shoot strickly factor ammo.... check out Rems ammo loaded w/ the Swift A-Frame.  That's a friggin great bullet.  Fed also loads Barnes TSX and BearClaws in the Premium ammo line.  Those too are have flat awesome terminal performance.  All those bullets are proven staples in Africa on dangerous game.
 

[FOsteology]

I read a substantial article in the September issue of the NRA's American Rifleman on numerous heads of PG shot in Africa by multiple hunters--all with the Winchester XP3.

On p. 55 is shown 13 recovered bullets, detailing the weight, expanded diameter, and range at impact of each. Many more bullets were not recovered from game, mostly due to complete penetration.

What is somewhat surprising is that bullets #2, 10, & 11 did not significantly expand.

Each of these non-expanded bullets impacted either hip or shoulder bone of Impala, Gemsbok, or Eland at ranges from 55-80 yards (and perhaps impact velocities in excess of 2600 fps?).

I also noticed the XP3 bullets "slug up" in the rear core section. I don't like to see that. I would rather the shank stay in its original shape to help the bullet penetrate in a straight line.

I read the article a couple of times. I came away from the article unconvinced and not sure if I want to try this ammo. I switched to Federal Premium with Barnes TSX a few years ago and really like those bullets on all types of game.

What I've concluded from reading all the various gun rags is that the majority of writers have spewed forth a big crock of sh!t for a long, long time. They take whatever the ammo/gun companies roll out and then talk it up as the greatest thing since sliced bread. All to make an article and get a free hunt. I'd for once like to see someone write, "Hey, this product really doesn't live up to the marketing hype and frankly sucks."

Based on what I have read and seen and heard from other's that have used the ammo,... there is no way this XP3 bullet performs as well as the Fail-safe; it simply isn't as stoutly constructed. Just look at the photos, the new bullet balls itself up, unlike a Fail-safe or Barnes TSX which keep a linear shape and seem to penetrate better.

Also, they claim this big "secondary expansion", where the base of the bullet bulges out - even to the point of rupturing the jacket. And, they are looking at getting a "patent" for the result.    If you would only look at recovered samples of Swift A-frames, you will see the same bulge - only the lead doesn't seem to rupture out of the jacket!

I'm not saying the new bullet won't kill game, but to say it is a "better" bullet than the Fail-safe, Barnes TSX, Swift A-Frame, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, or even the tried and true Nosler Partition is asking me to drink from the chamber pot.

[Intruder]

Some great points FOsteology !!!  I've never shot Fail-Safes but I've shot the other 3 bullets I mentioned and I can attest to their quality and performance.  I'm strictly a TSX shooter at this point however. 

[MooseStock]

Just a question. What would be your problem with Boattails? I have a Browning 7mm RM that I got for a High school graduation present in 1971 and it has somewhere in the area of 100 deer,elk and bear (including 25 Elk) to its credit. My choice of bullet has been and still is the Federal premium 150gr boattail since its beginning. No problem with knockdown power or long range. Just wondering........Les

[Bigshooter]

Just a question. What would be your problem with Boattails? I have a Browning 7mm RM that I got for a High school graduation present in 1971 and it has somewhere in the area of 100 deer,elk and bear (including 25 Elk) to its credit. My choice of bullet has been and still is the Federal premium 150gr boattail since its beginning. No problem with knockdown power or long range. Just wondering........Les

All a boattail does is brings up the bullets b.c. and that is about it.

If you are looking for a new bullet, go with the A-Frame or the Partion.  I have not heard anything good about the xp3.  I also really like the accubonds.

[FOsteology]

I'm pretty much at the point where it's TSX or bust! lol  I like the new tipped TSX too.

Interested in trying out the Nosler E-tip.....

[MountainWalk]

boattails in any form, bonded or not, are more likely to slip their cores.. they bring up bc a little, but remember boatails are for the military, where ranges can be way farther than the responsibles hunters range. the boat tail, believe it or not provides no real advantage till you get to 600 yards. the flat base is the way to go.. i'll try to dig up an article by ross seyfried, who is the man. 

[bobcat]

I'm wanting to try the Nosler E tip also, 30 cal. 150 grain in my 30-06 loaded to 3000 feet per second. I'm a fan of Barnes TSX but I'd like to give Nosler my business if I can get them to shoot as good as the Barnes do.

[Bookworm]

I've been shooting partitions for almost thirty years. They have never failed me yet. I did buy some Barnes bullets this last winter but I haven't loaded any yet.

[MooseStock]

Thanks for the comeback on the boattails. I in fact do shoot a lot of my game at distances 300 to 500 yards. I guess I am old school but with the success I have had with little or no failures I guess  there would be no need for me to change. I think alot of shooting is in your confidence in your rifle and your bullet anyway...what works for you. Thanks for your insight...its always good to get a different perspective...............Les

[jdb]

boattails in any form, bonded or not, are more likely to slip their cores.. they bring up bc a little, but remember boatails are for the military, where ranges can be way farther than the responsibles hunters range. the boat tail, believe it or not provides no real advantage till you get to 600 yards. the flat base is the way to go.. i'll try to dig up an article by ross seyfried, who is the man. 

What he said. JB

[Intruder]

 

boattails in any form, bonded or not, are more likely to slip their cores.. they bring up bc a little, but remember boatails are for the military, where ranges can be way farther than the responsibles hunters range. the boat tail, believe it or not provides no real advantage till you get to 600 yards. the flat base is the way to go.. i'll try to dig up an article by ross seyfried, who is the man. 

I guarantee that will not happen w/ the Barnes   As far as ranges and responsible shooting that's a whole other topic that probably isn't worth gettin into here.  That being said there are more high quality bullets available today than there ever has been.  You'll likely be able to find a suitable replacement for the Fail-Safes.  Just find one that shoots good out of your gun and kill the *censored* out things. 
 

[MountainWalk]

still hunting for the ross seyfried article. when read it, then you totally realize what a hoax boattails really are.  he strips away everything  and shows it in plain veiw..

[Intruder]

still hunting for the ross seyfried article. when read it, then you totally realize what a hoax boattails really are.  he strips away everything  and shows it in plain veiw..

"Boat-Tail Bullets: The Cruel Hoax" Rifle Magazine Sept 2003.  I remember reading part of this but I don't remember any of the facts presented.  I believe there is ample evidence that shows that boattails create superior BCs.  Whether or not it's "needed" for most hunting scenarios is debatable.

In the ranges that the vast majority(90+%) of game is shot I would say they are not.  Hard to see alot of difference in BC until you get out past 400/500 yards.  BC really helps with windage more than anything.  While it does help w/ drop that is more easy to compensate for than windage.

One interesting note.  Ross Seyfried was an advocate of the Fail-Safe.  I believe he now is a Barnes guy though.   

[MountainWalk]

because they dont make the fail safe anymore.

[tlbradford]

I know it isn't really popular, but I like ballistic tips.  I am not interested in a pretty bullet that I can recover, just one that enters the body cavity and blows up.  Animals die fast, and that is the result I am looking for.  I also do not want full penetration.  If I was to hunt dangerous game I would completely reverse my thinking in what I want in bullet performance.  I would want something that would penetrate anything it came across and also hold its mass while creating the biggest wound channel possible.

[bobcat]

I prefer to have an exit hole, makes for a better blood trail. I understand the other way works too, and often a blood trail isn't needed, as the animal doesn't go anywhere. But I just prefer two holes.

[MountainWalk]

i like two  holes. air in, blood out

[Intruder]

i like two  holes. air in, blood out

me too
Also, I wanna know that if I gotta whack a big ol' bull in the shoulder that my bullet is gonna survive the trip through it into the heart/lungs. 

[tlbradford]

Not disagreeing with anybody, just a personal preference.  I do not want to blood trail anything, I just want it to fall over and die.  From what I have witnessed so far, that happens with a bullet that causes major trauma inside the body cavity, rather than a thru and thru.  I never try a shot through the shoulder, and to this point, have never put one into the shoulder.  Maybe when I do, I'll change my tune.  I will concede a couple of points to you guys...also an opinion, not stating any studies...I would bet that the percentage of recovered animals is higher with a tougher bullet that retains its mass and punches through bone if needed, even if you have to track it farther.  I will also concede that I have less room for error when shooting, and that means I need to be more selective with my shots.

[MountainWalk]

there is no denying that the winchester fail-safe was arguably the toughest non solid hunting bullet out there. i think its way too much overkill for deer and sheep. too bad its gone. im going to start giving a frames a try. btw, i found the magazine aticle i was talking about. its pretty convincing. but i dont wanna type it verbatem or run into copyright issues. guess i could quote?

[Intruder]

Tbrad....
I would say your take on it is pretty accurate.  Also, for deer size game and smaller it's not as much an issue.  Comparitavily speaking whitetails/anetelope and even most mule deer are gonna crumple when hit w/ a light jacketed bullet.

MW33....
I think you'll like the A-Frame.  It's a darn good bullet.  I'm quessing the article you mentioned is in print form and not available to view via Inet?

[MountainWalk]

yes, im thinking.

ive read lots of good things about it and have had a few clients use them with good things happening after the shot. i cringe when i see guys with ballistic tips for elk show up at camp. i really hate it.
for deer and even black bear, i like plain old win super x power points or sumthin or ruther.

[MountainWalk]

any you guys looked at north fork bullets by chance?

[Intruder]

I've looked into them.  I like the design.  I heard a rumor that they are actually out of business.

[Bigshooter]

Not disagreeing with anybody, just a personal preference.  I do not want to blood trail anything, I just want it to fall over and die.  From what I have witnessed so far, that happens with a bullet that causes major trauma inside the body cavity, rather than a thru and thru.  I never try a shot through the shoulder, and to this point, have never put one into the shoulder.  Maybe when I do, I'll change my tune.  I will concede a couple of points to you guys...also an opinion, not stating any studies...I would bet that the percentage of recovered animals is higher with a tougher bullet that retains its mass and punches through bone if needed, even if you have to track it farther.  I will also concede that I have less room for error when shooting, and that means I need to be more selective with my shots.

I saw saw a site on the internet once, and I will try and find it again that showed a bunch of different bullets getting shot into some kind of gel.  All of the bullets that they shot into the gel would lose all or most of there energy in the first 12 to 14 inches the heavier or more well constructed  bullets all exited.  When you looked at the difference between a soft bullet that didn't exit and a bullet that did exit there was hardly any difference other that one exited.

[FOsteology]

any you guys looked at north fork bullets by chance?

As of January 1 2008 Mike Brady made the decision to get out of the bullet making business and pursue other opportunities. 
I've been hoping that some other established company (Federal, Hornady, etc.) would step-up and acquire North Fork, because the bullets were some of the most accurate and best-performing true premium big game bullets that has ever been produced.

[jdb]

how about woodliegh also Ive seen good things with trophy bonded bear claw and of course when in doubt nosler partition

[steeleywhopper]

 I too would be interested with some input on the XP3 performance. I will be hunting moose this september in BC. I'm thinking of trying a different bullet. Currently I shoot Fedral 180gr Nosler partitions from a 300win mag.

[Alchase]

I shoot the CXP3 180 gr. ballistic tip 300 win mag. with my Sako, this gun loves these bullets.
Best shooting round I have found for this gun. Sub-moa consistently.
I have also been using various ballistic tips (my 7mm, Ruger m77, Mk II, loved the silvertips) off an on for over thirty years. My experience has been nothing but great accuracy and have never seen one "blowup" or not do it's job.
I would recommend this bullet.

[bobcat]

Article by John Haviland:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/xp3_1.html

[Curly]

Article by John Haviland:

I like this quote:

We climbed the hill and found the buck deader than political honesty.

[Eli346]

Hey guys,
 A little late but I was reading old posts and came across a ? about the X-P3 bullets. I've shot shot elk and deer with the X-P3 and the Fail Safe and have nothing but great things to say about them. I'm shooting Tika T3 300 WSM and they both group great and the kills have been clean with not much bloodshot. I've recently switched over to the HSM Berger VLD's and practicing alot at 4-5& 600 yards. Great results. Took 1 shot at 856 but misjudged the wind and shot 3' left and 1' low  wounding the rock I was shooting at!

[Cascade_Sherpa]

I shoot the CXP3 180 gr. ballistic tip 300 win mag. with my Sako, this gun loves these bullets.
Best shooting round I have found for this gun. Sub-moa consistently.
I have also been using various ballistic tips (my 7mm, Ruger m77, Mk II, loved the silvertips) off an on for over thirty years. My experience has been nothing but great accuracy and have never seen one "blowup" or not do it's job.
I would recommend this bullet.

I also have used the XP3 exclusively in my Sako 300 wsm and I've killed several elk both close up and at distances.  A couple of the close up shots were shoulder and spine impacts and the recovered bullets showed no sign of bulging or deforming despite destroying a major bone structure and continuing on to punch holes through vitals.  The elk I've killed in the last two seasons I wasn't able to recover bullets because the XP3's just punched in, made jelly out of the lungs and then left big exit wounds and continued on.

I'd like to try the Barnes triple shock next but I have no reason to switch cause the XP3's seem to be plenty leathal to me.....