Tradition only unit

[Ironhead]

This thread seems to be a working example of division.
Trad guys all ready have archery only hunts, what else are they looking for? Less people, longer seasons, later seasons Earlier seasons? I just want to know what the seperation is for?

[JBar]

DBHAWTHORNE you can't satisfy everyone.

You said it Ray! Can't satisfy everyone, so why would you try to satisfy the few at the expense of the majority. This seems to be a quest for personal satisfaction and not looking out for the group as a whole. If there was an outlined or clearly stated reason for the separation this topic might have merit. Until then  

[DBHAWTHORNE]

DBHAWTHORNE you can't satisfy everyone. I think the discussion here is just a wandering one  but of no great seriousness yet. I also think that being hypercritical of it displays a sense of open yet veiled attack against peoples ideas. People are just having a discussion and to come in with every 3rd response and say it is doomed is kind of silly. There has been nothing proposed to the WDFW so there is nothing to declare complicated.

I don't mean the idea of having Trad only season is too complicated...just the idea that everyone would reach a consensus is not going to happen because it's too complicated. Obviously we don't need 100% to make this happen. We won't please everyone; thats a fact.

As long as it doesn't take away from anyone else I would fully support the Trad guys having a season after the general archery like was proposed in the initial post. It would maximize opportunities for that group and I think it would really have minimal impact on the herd. I was against the idea at first because I thought the suggestion was to "take away" from other user groups to give (arguably) the smallest user group a special season/area. (you set me straight on that assumption earlier..thanks for that)

I (unlike many others) don't oppose something simply for the fact that it doesn't appeal to my senses of what X type of hunting is really about. If it increases opportunity and doesn't harm the herd then I will always support it no matter what my personal views are of X method/weapons/season in relation to what the experience of hunting is all about.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

DBHAWTHORNE you can't satisfy everyone.

You said it Ray! Can't satisfy everyone, so why would you try to satisfy the few at the expense of the majority. This seems to be a quest for personal satisfaction and not looking out for the group as a whole. If there was an outlined or clearly stated reason for the separation this topic might have merit. Until then  

I was making this argument originally too. After rereading the original posting I was making assumptions on that. I would be interesting in seeing a actual proposal. There is a possibility they could have their season without impacting other user groups and with minimal impact to the herd. If it brings a sizable recruitment to Trad Archery there may have to be some adjustments made. To start with I have no idea how many Trad Archers we have in the state and their success rates. I think that is something that would need to be assessed first.

[Wenatcheejay]

Hey, sell it as another tag option. WDFW will be all over it if they can sell the tags for enough revenue.

You know come "Tag time," (Kinda like Tax time) I feel like there is little difference between the "special tags" and a canned hunt. You can go to a bird ranch and shoot released birds. (That is bad.) Or, you can go to a WDFW release site and hunt released birds. (That is good.) Go to a Ranch and Pay to hunt animals with low to no pressure is bad; Shoot an animal with a special tag on it's winter ground, that is good. The idea of DYI, Fair Chase, Ethics, Fairness, Tradtion, Canned Hunt, more and more I see little difference outside of, "opinion."  

[argali]

I do see how in could divide hunters as long as it didn't take away from other seasons and why would it have to ? I believe the impact would be minimal. It could limited longbow and recurves, wood arrows w/feathers, no sights, no release. It should be open to everyone. You would have to be willing to use traditional equipment.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

After reading this whole thing, I will add my 
I do not believe in a separate unit for Traditional Archery, once upon a time they had Archery Only units, but that was when there were fewer Archers.
Now I only know of one Archery only unit (Long Island), and a portion of one near Enumclaw,
However, I study the pamphlet every year, and spend considerable time in the "Special Permit" section.
We now have separate permits for "Quality", "Antlered", "Antlerless", second, youth, firearm, disabled, over 65, master hunter, instructor, OIL, etc...
Why not have a few "Traditional" for Archery and Muzzleloaders that choose to use those weapons ?
It would have no impact on other users, eliminate those who applied from applying for other permits, and provide opportunity.
........................................
On another note, I would also be for mandatory NBEF classes, including "demonstrated" ability, much like the "AHE" program for Archery hunters, no matter what type they use.

[Lowedog]

Why not have a few "Traditional" for Archery and Muzzleloaders that choose to use those weapons ?
It would have no impact on other users, eliminate those who applied from applying for other permits, and provide opportunity.

In order to apply for those hunts would anyone who purchases an archery or muzzy tag be allowed to apply? 

[JBar]

I do see how in could divide hunters as long as it didn't take away from other seasons and why would it have to ? I believe the impact would be minimal. It could limited longbow and recurves, wood arrows w/feathers, no sights, no release. It should be open to everyone. You would have to be willing to use traditional equipment.

Problem! You'd have every Tom, Dick and Harry grabbing a stick and string going out doing something they did not become efficient at.  

And as far as a Special permit Stik, if they add to one they would take from another. Not saying it's right or wrong or if it would even be necessary just saying that's how it would be done. WDFW is not going to ADD opportunity. Someone will lose out, might even be from the smallest user group as it would impact the least amount of people (muzzy) hypothetically of course.  

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I do see how in could divide hunters as long as it didn't take away from other seasons and why would it have to ? I believe the impact would be minimal. It could limited longbow and recurves, wood arrows w/feathers, no sights, no release. It should be open to everyone. You would have to be willing to use traditional equipment.

Problem! You'd have every Tom, Dick and Harry grabbing a stick and string going out doing something they did not become efficient at.  

And as far as a Special permit Stik, if they add to one they would take from another. Not saying it's right or wrong or if it would even be necessary just saying that's how it would be done. WDFW is not going to ADD opportunity. Someone will lose out, might even be from the smallest user group as it would impact the least amount of people (muzzy) hypothetically of course.  

Not neccessarily, they constantly change the number of permits, add new ones, take others, at least it would not have the impact the "Rifle Rut" Elk permit had, Also, they offer permits based upon expected harvest, and 10-15, even 25 extra permits for would have a success rate of what ?, and how many harvested animals ?, not any significant difference.
And every Tom, Dick, and Harry, that is not currently using Traditional equipment, is not going to quit applying for Peaches Ridge Any Bull, or Dayton, (whatever) to go for a "Traditional Permit", unless it was for the same area, with better draw odds, so they would just have to avoid the same area, or have only a couple permits

[JBar]

You're talking permits, argali was talking general hunt and that's what I was referring to with Tom, Dick and Harry.

I see your point about the permits but from what Ive seen they take from one to give to another. This could come in the loss of regular season time or in permit levels. Take Entiat/Chiwawa for example, last year they gave more permits to Muzzy and took away from Archers. The few permits that were given did not equal what was taken away from archery.   

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

You're talking permits, argali was talking general hunt and that's what I was referring to with Tom, Dick and Harry.

I see your point about the permits but from what Ive seen they take from one to give to another. This could come in the loss of regular season time or in permit levels. Take Entiat/Chiwawa for example, last year they gave more permits to Muzzy and took away from Archers. The few permits that were given did not equal what was taken away from archery.   

BUT, the EXPECTED HARVEST, or successful hunters remained the same,
I doubt that unless it was a lot of permits, or a really long season, there would be any impact on other permits.
I would not support a separate general season, as I feel Archery is Archery, Muzzle-loader is Muzzle loader, and Modern Firearm is Modern Firearm, and support keeping the regulations as they are to preserve those seasons.
If they change the reg's to accept more modern conveniences to these weapons, then I would support separate seasons.

[ScottyG]

Traditional guys can already hunt some pretty great bow seasons, albeit with the other bow hunters who choose to hunt with less traditional archery equipment.  I respect anyone who is committed enough to raise the bar on their skills to become proficient with traditional equipment but I don't feel that the choice is deserving of carving out a special season.

I know a number of guys who hunt with traditional equipment.  They get their opportunities within the structure of the current bow seasons.  Although I don't hunt with traditional gear, I get opportunities every year that could of been converted with a traditional bow if I had chosen that weapon and committed to becoming effective out to 20 yards.

I'm sure that success with traditional equipment comes with a great deal of personal satisfaction. I guess I don't see why that additional satisfaction can not be the driving force behind a persons choice to go traditional.

Scott

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Traditional guys can already hunt some pretty great bow seasons, albeit with the other bow hunters who choose to hunt with less traditional archery equipment.  I respect anyone who is committed enough to raise the bar on their skills to become proficient with traditional equipment but I don't feel that the choice is deserving of carving out a special season.

I know a number of guys who hunt with traditional equipment.  They get their opportunities within the structure of the current bow seasons.  Although I don't hunt with traditional gear, I get opportunities every year that could of been converted with a traditional bow if I had chosen that weapon and committed to becoming effective out to 20 yards.

I'm sure that success with traditional equipment comes with a great deal of personal satisfaction. I guess I don't see why that additional satisfaction can not be the driving force behind a persons choice to go traditional.

Scott

When I chose to "Go Traditional" it was mostly out of a frustration with my Compound, and the fun I was having playing around with a recurve and longbow I had acquired.
Most of my shots at game were less than 20 yards anyhow.
I fell in love with the equipment, and do feel a sense of additional satisfaction in harvesting an animal with my recurve.
As I stated before, I would be against a separate season, but if there were special permits available, I would apply.
I know I have been applying for OIL tags since I started hunting 32 years ago, and if I were drawn next year, I would first try to fill the tag/permit with one of my recurves, and if that was not working out, I would try with my Fathers Muzzle-loader (side-lock percussion Zouave)
If the option was there to apply for a "Traditional" permit, That would be my choice, and open up a chance in whatever other one I would have applied for......
there are so many options now, why not one more.....

[JBar]

I guess I am missing something and maybe someone can fill me in on Why!!! Why?  Should there be a separate permit available or unit?? Why do the traditional guys feel there should be one? Is it because you feel you need to get closer to the game? Is it because they deserve it or feel unsafe with modern archers in the area? Why? So far I have not seen a valid reason or even an explanation of why it is felt needed. I'm not against the idea if there is a valid reason for it, I know validity will be different to everyone but so far.... But give us something to ponder over.