Tradition only unit

[hughjorgan]

quadrafire,  Each person is only allowed one deer but that doesn't mean everybody kills a deer every year. It's around 1 deer killed for every 5 hunters. To allow everyone to hunt all the seasons would no doubt increase that percentage by a lot. That is why it matters. They regulate the number of deer harvested by limiting the time that each hunter gets to hunt. What would happen if they were to allow every person to hunt archery, muzzleloader, and modern firearm seasons is that each of those season would have to be drastically reduced in length to account for all the additional hunters.

Even if they did let everyone hunt what ever season they wanted not everyone is going to kill something and not everyone is going to hunt every season either. From my understanding this state used to have way more hunters before they implemented CYW and they didn't have any problems managing for adequate numbers of game then, so why would it be different now if we went back to the way it used to be. We have less hunters now too.

[NoBark]

Hunter numbers may be down but I sure can't see any evidence of that in the archery seasons I hunt.  More now than ever.

IF we could hunt any season, here is my 'quess' at season lengths

early archery 5-7 days in sept

modern firearm     4 days max

muzzleloader  6-8 days

late archery 5-7 days in Nov


There is a limit to how many deer are harvested......everybody wants to hunt........everybody wants a 'quality' experience.........
everybody wants to hunt for an extended period of time............


I'll take longer seasons with a bow only  ANYDAY over  the senerio above

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Hunter numbers may be down but I sure can't see any evidence of that in the archery seasons I hunt.  More now than ever.

IF we could hunt any season, here is my 'quess' at season lengths

early archery 5-7 days in sept

modern firearm     4 days max

muzzleloader  6-8 days

late archery 5-7 days in Nov


There is a limit to how many deer are harvested......everybody wants to hunt........everybody wants a 'quality' experience.........
everybody wants to hunt for an extended period of time............


I'll take longer seasons with a bow only  ANYDAY over  the senerio above

Combine all those days and that would equal the shortest hunting seasons in the nation by far. I doubt it would require that drastic of a change. What they could do is shift around the seasons to manage the herds. For instance most states that have decent herds don't have a rifle season during their pre-rut/rut.

[tlbradford]

I don't know if I would be for a Trad only unit, but I would be all for a trad-only special draw for OIL's and quality elk and deer.

[Snapshot]

I am in the fog of celebrating a good morning's hunt, but I'll risk typing anything at all by saying that it is extremely encouraging to read what has been posted here over the past day and a half. Discussion like this is GOOD!
Cheers.

[gjbruny]

More wounded animals?

How about a unit where we run whole herds over a cliff?

is that what you did with the buffalo in your avitar. just razz'n ya.

honestly, i'd have to agree and i'd get flamed on this one (and have ) over on the trad sites..... but it is true. as a percentage within the groups, i'd say that more animals are wounded with sticks than compounds. i have been to MANY trad only shoots and MANY MANY guys (more like the majority of them) have absolutely no business shooting at animals with single string bows...... scratch that, single string bows without sights..... you know, cause sights were never used on traditional bows before traditional bows were considered traditional.

one thing is for certain, if they did have a trad season or unit, the hunter should have to pass a proficency test..... if a guy can't consistently put it in the vitals at 20 yards on foam under optimal conditions, how are they supposed to do it at 15 when they have specific clothing on that can get in the way, limited time to draw, and their heart is about to jump out of their chest.

but i also think (and have said for years) a proficiency test should be for all of us archers not just those of us that hunt with single strings. though it wouldn't make up for poor decisions in the field, it might curb the ones that have no business out there to begin with.

[gjbruny]

More wounded animals?

How about a unit where we run whole herds over a cliff?

is that what you did with the buffalo in your avitar. just razz'n ya.

honestly, i'd have to agree and i'd get flamed on this one (and have ) over on the trad sites..... but it is true. as a percentage within the groups, i'd say that more animals are wounded with sticks than compounds. i have been to MANY trad only shoots and MANY MANY guys (more like the majority of them) have absolutely no business shooting at animals with single string bows...... scratch that, single string bows without sights..... you know, cause sights were never used on traditional bows before traditional bows were considered traditional. being "over bowed" is a big problem for stickbow guys as well which causes poor form and misses.

one thing is for certain, if they did have a trad season or unit, the hunter should have to pass a proficency test..... if a guy can't consistently put it in the vitals at 20 yards on foam under optimal conditions, how are they supposed to do it at 15 when they have specific clothing on that can get in the way, limited time to draw, and their heart is about to jump out of their chest.

but i also think (and have said for years) a proficiency test should be for all of us archers not just those of us that hunt with single strings. though it wouldn't make up for poor decisions in the field, it might curb the ones that have no business out there to begin with.

[Snapshot]

I'd say that more animals are wounded with sticks than compounds. i have been to MANY trad only shoots and MANY MANY guys (more like the majority of them) have absolutely no business shooting at animals with single string bows...

I know some compound hunters and not a single year in eighteen has gone by where, while sharing stories of our respective hunting trips, I haven't been told by them, "We crippled one and never found it." Some years it has been more than one; deer, elk and occasionally bear. And the stories of wounded and unrecovered animals INVARIABLY begins with, "I put my sixty (or eighty) yard pin on him and..." Then comes the "took a step" or "a branch I didn't see" part followed by the drawn out tale of following blood "until it got dark" or "until it started raining". And these guys fill tags year after year. They are capable hunters but grew up as rifle hunters and switched because of the longer seasons.

That being said, what people do at a 3-D shoot has no bearing on their decision-making while hunting. And most of the people who shoot traditional 3-D do not even hunt; they are recreational shooters.

So I'd say what you say doesn't hold water but that is just me, using my measuring cup.  

[gjbruny]

snapshot- i AM a stickbow guy so don't take what i said as a slam on us "trad boys." i'm just being honest. i also know a lot of trad hunters (i am an administrator on a trad site) and NEARLY all of them these days, with the exception of the much older guys, are compound converts..... and some of  those compound converts are rifle converts for the same reason you mentioned..... they are the same "group" or type of guys you know with a different weapon choice if ya know what i mean. just because they have a longbow or a recurve in their hand doesn't mean they are perfect or make less than good choices.

putting the 60 yard pin on something is no different than shooting at one at 25 when they are only proficient at 15 (just an example). bottom line is, a hunting weight single string bow with sights is harder to consistently shoot accurately than a compound. take off the sights (because most in the trad ranks don't think sights are traditional LOL!) and shoot with an aiming method (gap, point of aim ect) or instinctive seriously compounds the difficulty. it only stands to reason that a less accurate weapon will produce more wounded animals. i take wounding seriously but it is a fact and one that i personally can live with. take two guys with two identical sets of ethical standards and at the end of their life, ask which one wounded more animals.... the one with the compound, or the one with the longbow. i know which one i'd put my money on.

and when people can't put arrows inside the foam vitals at fun shoots but do hunt with those weapons, they are a stain on bowhunters, not just traditional bowhunters. i don't know what trad shoots you have been to but most all of the guys i talk to at these shoots are talking hunting while shooting.... some of them even have a few broadheads in their quivers.

what i say may truly not hold water (though i have talked to literally thousands of trad hunters) but neither does your "knowing some compound hunters." that is kind of a small sample group isn't it?

[krout81]

and when people can't put arrows inside the foam vitals at fun shoots but do hunt with those weapons, they are a stain on bowhunters, not just traditional bowhunters. i don't know what trad shoots you have been to but most all of the guys i talk to at these shoots are talking hunting while shooting.... some of them even have a few broadheads in their quivers.

I have been on a few shoots, I use compound bow with fingers and the arrow.  Watched more guys than I can count miss targets with their pins, fancy bows, and releases because they only know the range if they have a range finder in their hand.  Its about practice and the idots who don't pratice or have no business with a bow in their hand in the first place are gonna ruin it for everyone.

If there are so many traditional hunters that want their own special unit let them have one or part of one just like in Oregon.  And 29 guys will go hunt it while I keep using my Compound and keep getting my deer and elk :-)

[boneaddict]

I only got the time to read page one.  Some damn good points made. 

[Skyvalhunter]

It will never happen the breaking down of archery season or area that much. Thats like asking for a 30-06 only area.

[argali]

I thought the purpose of the game dept was to maximize the recreational opportunities for each user group while minimizing the impact on the resources? A trad only area/season could work based on the above  idea ? I know this will raise the hackles of some people ,but theres many advances in technology that have led or will lead to shortened seasons.

[blackveltbowhunter]

gj, I like your style man, you bring up some great points and are obviously a very accomplished bowhunter. Kudos.

   I love SHOOTING archery tackle both traditional and compound. The simplicity of traditional, the form work, the fingers on the string etc.. I also love the power of a compound, the technology, the gadgets, the  nock busting at 40+ yards, less lost arrows.  But I LIVE to BOWHUNT! I currently carry a highly advanced bow comprised of aluminum, strings, cables, and cams, not " training wheels" in the woods and make no apologies for it. Im very profficient in the use of said equipment and strive to constantly become more so through diligent practice. May I ever change my mind and hunt with a stick and string SURE. And will devote the same amount of due diligence to being as proficient as possible with that weapon as well adopting certain limitations that come with it. But a special permit, or extended season has never and WILL never play a role in my decision to do so.
   Every hunter needs to know his/her limitations self imposed or otherwise. How many guys would choose to hunt rifle over bow if the seasons were reversed? How about if the Rifle season was half as crowded? Muzzleloader same thing. I know several rifle guys who punch tags every year, They shoot alot. They scout alot. They hunt hard. They don't cry about how short the season is, or that the rut is over, cuz they get it done. But more and more I hear guys at the shop or run into guys in the woods saying stuff along the lines of " finally switchin over to archery, just to crowded during rifle". Or "man i've only had this new bow a month but im cuttin 12's at 50 yard most of the time, should be ready to go!" Then the same guy bragging about a 65 yard shot uphill that "spined" him while he was watching the hunter.
     My point is given reasonable seasons and expectations with a given weapon guys who kill chit, will kill chit, or will pass up opportunitys to kill chit. Wannabes will always cry about how short the season was, how the other guys got a better season than us, we need more permits for OUR weapon of choice. 
     Twigs that deflect arrows dont care if the arrow is carbon, aluminum, or cedar. They dont care whether it was launched from a lovingly crafted bow, or one milled out of a block of alluminum by a machine; whether it was going 200 or 300 fps. Animals that jump your string causing poor hits or misses honestly could care less as well. If you think an alerted buck cant hear your whisper quiet 55 lb longbow, or wont be able to duck out of the way of your screaming 320 fps carbon shaft launched by your pretty month old baby, your decieving yourself. I agree with many posts here compounds are intrinsically easier to SHOOT, but HUNTING ethically and profficiently with them is far from the gimme many people make them out to be. And until the come up with a bow that breaks the sound barrier or legalize crossbows or locking mechanisms, the biggest drawbacks to hunting with them will remain the same.
     If the tradional crowd would like more opportunities separate from the rest of the archery community, thats fine with me. But whats to keep folks who just want to join for sake of the extended season, or excellent draw odds from dilluting the tradition as a whole in a few years?

[dirty24d]

It will never happen the breaking down of archery season or area that much. Thats like asking for a 30-06 only area.