7mm-08 bullet choice

[jrebel]

I will likely go with the partition as it is one of my favorite bullets.  With that said......anyone ever shoot the nosler e-tips and if so what is your thoughts for a 140grain in the 7mm-08 for elk?

[h2ofowlr]

My son is shooting the 139gr Nosler Whitetail specials.  They have been very accurate and he is 2 for 2 on deer so far.  One shot each and dropped the deer in their tracks.

[jrebel]

OK....got everything in line.  Savage Lady Hunter in 7mm-08 topped with a Leupold VX-iii 4.5-14x40 LR side focus boon and crockett reticle.  Will be working up a load with 140 grain partitions.

Choice in powders will be:  Varget, H4350, H414.  My 308 loves 414 so may try that, though my gut tells me to try Varget first.  Any thoughts?? 

[p-ohana]

140 gr accubonds in mine, 2 whitetails 3 pigs and a bobcat have gone done with that and none of them went farther than 30 feet. They where all taken in Louisiana,

[jdb]

I'm not a huge Partition fan, care to share why?

[RadSav]

I'm not a huge Partition fan,

care to share why?

When I was guiding bear hunters the vast majority of animals shot with the Partition I had to track.  Most needing to put down later with a second shot.  Have been on two elk hunts with guys shooting Partitions and each time we spent hours tracking to find those animals too.  I don't recall ever losing an animal shot with a Partition but my standards are a bit higher than just recovery.

What I began to notice is that most guys using Partitions were using them at magnum velocities to avoid jacket separation.  At those velocities we were losing the entire front section on entry and only the control area was making complete penetration.  At least jacket separation on Sierra's was happening later as velocity was slowing dumping most of that energy into the chest cavity.

Years later when I decided to start categorizing my guide logs it became very clear.  Those using Partitions at 308, heavy for 30-06, 7X57 and 257 Roberts velocities were getting the best results.  The guys using 300 WM, 300 Wby, 257 Wby and light for 270 and 7MM were experiencing the worst results.  You take that information and start adding in well experienced writers like Boddington who kept preaching "Heavy for Caliber" choices when talking about Partitions and we start to assume that maybe heavy for caliber is working because the velocity is lower and the Partition is working more effectively.

Today we have all kinds of great controlled expansion bullets designed specifically for those magnum velocities.  Some, like the TTSX, that actually perform 10 fold better in "Light for Caliber" rather than the old "Heavy for Caliber".  Partition is still a good bullet if you need to have the ability to smash through big bones on dangerous game.  But the A-Frame probably does that just as well and the Barnes probably does it better yet.  At slow velocity and wanting the best of both worlds (Heart/Lung and shoulder pounding performance) the Partition is still a uniquely qualified bullet with few equals.  But that is becoming a much more rare need than it used to be.

Other than being a flying brick, I do have a much better appreciation for the Partition in the 257 Bob, 7-08, 7X57 and .308 than I used to.  I really think those are the velocities where it performs the best.  And I have come to appreciate the Partition in the 270 and 30-06 when loaded Heavy for Caliber.  But in all those cases I have experienced equal if not superior results out to 250 yards using the Remington Core-Lokt at 1/3rd the price.  Partition only pulling ahead after 300 yards...if you can hit what you are aiming at beyond 300!

A lot of loyal Partition fans love to call me names and send me hate mail every time I explain this.  I don't think they completely understand that I am not bashing the Partition.  All I'm saying is that I am not a huge fan.  I even have guns loaded for them right now!  But if it was the single greatest most universal bullet out there than why has there only been a single copy after all these years?  And that copy being about as opposite in terminal performance to the Partition as it could possibly be.

I'm not a hater.  I'm just not a huge fan...most of the time.

[huntnphool]

I'm not a huge Partition fan,

care to share why?

When I was guiding bear hunters the vast majority of animals shot with the Partition I had to track.  Most needing to put down later with a second shot.  Have been on two elk hunts with guys shooting Partitions and each time we spent hours tracking to find those animals too.  I don't recall ever losing an animal shot with a Partition but my standards are a bit higher than just recovery.

What I began to notice is that most guys using Partitions were using them at magnum velocities to avoid jacket separation.  At those velocities we were losing the entire front section on entry and only the control area was making complete penetration.  At least jacket separation on Sierra's was happening later as velocity was slowing dumping most of that energy into the chest cavity.

Years later when I decided to start categorizing my guide logs it became very clear.  Those using Partitions at 308, heavy for 30-06, 7X57 and 257 Roberts velocities were getting the best results.  The guys using 300 WM, 300 Wby, 257 Wby and light for 270 and 7MM were experiencing the worst results.  You take that information and start adding in well experienced writers like Boddington who kept preaching "Heavy for Caliber" choices when talking about Partitions and we start to assume that maybe heavy for caliber is working because the velocity is lower and the Partition is working more effectively.

Today we have all kinds of great controlled expansion bullets designed specifically for those magnum velocities.  Some, like the TTSX, that actually perform 10 fold better in "Light for Caliber" rather than the old "Heavy for Caliber".  Partition is still a good bullet if you need to have the ability to smash through big bones on dangerous game.  But the A-Frame probably does that just as well and the Barnes probably does it better yet.  At slow velocity and wanting the best of both worlds (Heart/Lung and shoulder pounding performance) the Partition is still a uniquely qualified bullet with few equals.  But that is becoming a much more rare need than it used to be.

Other than being a flying brick, I do have a much better appreciation for the Partition in the 257 Bob, 7-08, 7X57 and .308 than I used to.  I really think those are the velocities where it performs the best.  And I have come to appreciate the Partition in the 270 and 30-06 when loaded Heavy for Caliber.  But in all those cases I have experienced equal if not superior results out to 250 yards using the Remington Core-Lokt at 1/3rd the price.  Partition only pulling ahead after 300 yards...if you can hit what you are aiming at beyond 300!

A lot of loyal Partition fans love to call me names and send me hate mail every time I explain this.  I don't think they completely understand that I am not bashing the Partition.  All I'm saying is that I am not a huge fan.  I even have guns loaded for them right now!  But if it was the single greatest most universal bullet out there than why has there only been a single copy after all these years?  And that copy being about as opposite in terminal performance to the Partition as it could possibly be.

I'm not a hater.  I'm just not a huge fan...most of the time.

 On the flip side, I have never needed to hit a animal more than once with a partition, and never needed to track one more than 10-15 yards. My go to rifle is a 7mm RM, and I have my share of decent trophies.
YMMV

[luteai]

Love your thinking/experience talks RadSav.  Mr. Nosler (Bob?) developed the Partition for standard velocity .270 Win due to poor bullet performance on a B.C. moose hunt.  With his partition the next season he achieved his goal of dropping a moose with out the bullet falling apart. (150 grain  .277 if memory serves)  Only bullet used in my dad's elk camp in the Blues for over 25 years after it's development.  .270's and 30'06's between the same 6 gents for nearly 30 years and lots of dead right there elk.  My experience is much more limited but on the few elk and bear I've used it on (.270 win) it's been a success.  Should be great in 7mm-08.

[RadSav]

A lot of developments to bullets since 1948.  Some even to the Partition!  I remember my grandfather saying he would never shoot the 270 because it was too fast and ruined too much meat. Later he said the same thing about the 7 Mag.  He also used to say only fools take shots further than 200 yards.

YMMV

 

[RadSav]

OK....got everything in line.  Savage Lady Hunter in 7mm-08 topped with a Leupold VX-iii 4.5-14x40 LR side focus boon and crockett reticle.  Will be working up a load with 140 grain partitions.

I believe I have 59 of those 140 Partitions in the drawer.  If you want them you can have them.  Just PM me an address.  I bought them a few years ago when I couldn't find heavier ones for a 280. The complete box hasn't even had the seal broken yet. 

[jrebel]

Pm inbound

[Windwalker]

Good comments RadSav- 

The old days of grabbing whatever is on the shelf or using your grandpa's popular loads has definitely evolved.

I think folks still dwell too much on the advertised max FPS and inches of drop rather than the velocity parameters the bullets were designed for optimal performance.

Unfortunately there is no magic bullet that penetrates regardless of velocity, bone or muscle mass and mushrooms perfectly from point blank to 1000 yards.
For more predictable results a well designed bullet should be used within the recommended impact velocities for reliable expansion and optimum retained weight and hit like the hammer of Thor.

Sounds good on paper but one can only hope. 

Found a site with a plethora of information some may find interesting.
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm-08+Remington.html

[jrebel]

RadSav and Windtalker......I totally agree.  Had this conversation with a fellow co-worker that swears by speed (velocity).  I had to show him on paper how my slower, heavier bullet hands down out performed his....especially at longer ranges.  Everyone wants their .270 shooting 3000 fps, which in my opinion is to fast.  I shoot 2740 ish fps with a 150 grain partitoion out of my .270 and it outperforms all 130 grain at 3000 fps hands down.....especially past about 250 yards.  Math doesn't lie.  Not to mention it just flattens animals. 

 

[RadSav]

Found a site with a plethora of information some may find interesting.
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm-08+Remington.html

Nathan Foster's research is really top notch.  But you do need to read between the lines a lot when hunting large mule deer and elk when reading his stuff.  Most of his guiding is done on smaller pigs and goats.  So some of his rave reviews can be mistaken as promising for elk.  Have to read his stuff carefully to get the full scope of his teaching.  Fascinating guy if you ever get the chance to speak with him.

[MountainWalk]

I'm no black bear master, but I have killed 12 by my lonesome and guided to five. Some were real monsters. Three were book quality.

In my opinion, there ain't a black bear alive that warrants a Partition or any other super bullet. Black bears are too soft an animal. They kill, sure, but your plain Jane cup and core is ideal for bear.

  The Partition is one of my fave slugs, but not for deer and bear.

All the bears I've had the pleasure of killing were inside of 50yds, and closer to 30~35, excepting one.