Change one regulation....

[DBake]

If you could change one muzzleloading regulation, what would it be?

If I would change one it would be to allow the use of jacketed and copper bullets.

[WDFW-SUX]

Make them hunt during modern season......

Is that what you were looking for 

[robodad]

How about an any bull statewide October 1-10 season.

JK !!

If I could change one thing it would be that the nipple does not have to be exposed to the elements (still no 209's only #11 or musket caps)

[DeKuma]

How about an any bull statewide October 1-10 season.

JK !!

If I could change one thing it would be that the nipple does not have to be exposed to the elements (still no 209's only #11 or musket caps)

I agree, but I would like to use 209's as well.

[mossback91]

Take a little bit of season off of the bow season and add it to muzzle loader season. I think it should be primitive style like hawken style thats the onyl way to make it worth a while might as well use a rifel otherwise in my opinion.

[rougheye]

 

[groundhog]

First off I shoot a traditional Muzzleloader but I have no problem with the Inlines. I even bought one but I just like my old traditional gun more.
I like the idea of allowing jacketed bullets. Jacketed bullets are not any more accurate and they do not allow a hunter to shoot farther. The advantage is that they do more damage on impact. Allowing Jacketed bullets would result in more retrieved game and fewer wounded animals.
A solid chunk of lead doesn't do the damage that a modern broadhead or high power rifle does. I have been involved in a bunch of Muzzleloader kills and animals just don't bleed like they do when shot with a bow or rifle.
It is hard to know where to draw the line on this stuff....

Sometimes I think technology is getting out of hand.....  I think the manufacturers better watch out or we could end up going back to Long bows and Flintlocks. Ya know, that might not be so bad........

[boneaddict]

I think primitive should mean primitive.....I'll save my speech.

[CP]

I think primitive should mean primitive.....I'll save my speech.

I agree.

[Gobble]

I agree too. I see these guys on the hunting shows with inlines jacketed bullets,scopes, 209s, etc and I think what the hell is the disadvantage or the challenge. I have 2 muzzleloaders a CVA hawken (.50 cal) I built from a kit and a Lyman Trade rifle (.54 cal) and have killed elk with both of them. The 385 gr slug dropped the cow I shot right in her tracks. I was able to retreive the slug and it retained 98% of it's weight and mushroomed to the dia. of a quarter (very devastating)

[Sagedawg]

 I'd like to see a Muley buck unit opened over here on the Eastside. I dont mind shooting does at all, but I really want to hunt a nice muley buck during the rut. And just for bone Ill use my .45 Hawken style............ :



    Sage


   

[WAcoyotehunter]

Let them use the inlines and be protected from the elements. They're still limited range and can only do so much.  If the purists want primitive they're welcome to continue using primitive.

[Cougeyes]

How about an any bull statewide October 1-10 season.

 

They did this once, dont think it was statewide but i know on the eastside around the Teanaway, Taneum, etc.... they did it.  We switched to muzzeloader that year, I missed a big 6 and ended up getting a 4 point with another guy.  That first day the butcher got 27 branched bulls brought into his shop.  Not sure what to think about that season, it was only for one season.  Dont know if they were trying to reduce the herd or what. It was a fun hunt though.

[bobcat]

I like the idea of allowing jacketed bullets. Jacketed bullets are not any more accurate and they do not allow a hunter to shoot farther. The advantage is that they do more damage on impact. Allowing Jacketed bullets would result in more retrieved game and fewer wounded animals.

I don't agree. I wouldn't say a jacketed bullet does more damage on impact. That would depend on the particular bullet, I suppose. But just because a bullet is jacketed doesn't make it more lethal. The advantage would be in the higher velocity they can be loaded up to. I non-jacketed bullet is really maxed out at around not much more than 1500 to 1600 feet per second. When you get beyond that you get excessive fouling and a loss of accuracy. With a jacketed bullet you can load your muzzleloader up to the max, which is 150 grains with some of them, and really get them screaming. This DOES allow a gun to shoot farther, and DOES make a gun more accurate at longer ranges.

The line needs to be drawn somewhere and I think the WDFW has done a good job in balancing what is allowed and what isn't. If anything I think the restrictions should be even more. But I can live with the way it is now.

[Ray]

Sometimes I think technology is getting out of hand.....  I think the manufacturers better watch out or we could end up going back to Long bows and Flintlocks. Ya know, that might not be so bad........

We're already there if you ask me. Longbows and flintlocks sound ok to me. Not against other types but they should be lumped in with general season in my book. That includes fancy 209s and compound bows.

[wastickslinger]

Sagedawg, It is open for mule deer 3 point min on eastside. There is even a late hunt or two.

[popeshawnpaul]

I saw Shockey shoot an animal at a distance of 270 or so yards with his muzzleloader recently on TV.  Many guys won't shoot their modern firearm that far, let alone a "primitive" weapon as he likes to say.  I'll leave it at that.

When I use to muzzleload hunt, I didn't like being forced to use iron sites.  I don't have the best eyes so using iron sites past 70 yards gets challenging.  Kind of sounds crazy buy let us mount a scope on that primitive weapon...   

[bobcat]

You need a peep sight then, not a scope. You're kidding when you say scopes should be allowed, aren't you?

[Ray]

You need a peep sight then, not a scope. You're kidding when you say scopes should be allowed, aren't you?

Sounds like it to me. In the army we shot out to 300 yards all the time when qualifying at human torso sized targets with No Scopes. I think that the scope is too much. It's physically possible for humans to identify large game to 300 yards without the aid of scope optics. Those that think it is too hard to see might just have to stalk closer or try another hunting method.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

I like it the way it is... Or maybe a little more restrictive.
In the last few years we have seen an influx of ML hunters in the late season and we are seeing more and more unethical behavior. Most that i have talked to have switched from rifle to ML and it was because the units were to crowded. But from my observations, and that is things i have seen they took a rifle mentality with them to the ML season. shots that are to long, 300 yards with a ML is to long, and statements of if i had a scope i would not have missed. Or kids chasing a herd of cows in the either sex units, shooting untill they see one drop. Not paying attention to blood trails. I would like them to add a unit or 2 to spread us out a little more.

[groundhog]

Bobcat,
I didn't realize that jacketed bullets allow for hotter loads. I guess that is why my best load using lead bullets in my traditional is a 110 grains of FF. Any more and the accuracy goes down.
 I can tell you that the bullets my dad uses in Illinois are way more devastating then the lead that I use. He uses jacketed/sabot-ed bullets that are designed for pistols. I don't recall the brand but I could find out if anyone is interested. The velocities are close to the same and the bullets retain weight but open up and really do some damage. All you have to do is look at the two bullets after the fact to see which one would do more damage.

I like the way things are although I would not complain if we went back to more primitive weapons.

[Curly]

I would like them to add a unit or 2 to spread us out a little more.

I agree with that statement.  It gets way too crowded with everyone all bunched-up in a few units.

[robodad]

Here is another thing that I would like to see changed, I drew a ML cow permit for the winston last year and it overlapped the general late archery season, I know it may not seem like much of an impact to some of you but being an archery hunter mostly I was kind of bummed when I realized I would be mixed up with the archery folks, yeah I should have realized it when I applied but for one reason or another I didn't. so I think the season overlaps should be discontinued !!

[Ray]

I'm betting that the way they would discontinue season overlap is to reduce on season or another. Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it in a way which doesn't benefit you. 

[Sagedawg]

Wastickslinger, I meant to say South of Spokane, its open for 3pt WT,but not muley bucks. What units are you talking about?
'

   Sage

[Slenk]

I think primitive should mean primitive.....I'll save my speech.

Sometimes I think technology is getting out of hand.....  I think the manufacturers better watch out or we could end up going back to Long bows and Flintlocks. Ya know, that might not be so bad........

We're already there if you ask me. Longbows and flintlocks sound ok to me. Not against other types but they should be lumped in with general season in my book. That includes fancy 209s and compound bows.

Now we talking!
Primitive seasons are primitive not modern tech.
Long Bows and Flintlocks .
Slenk

[billythekidrock]

That includes fancy 209s

Aren't they against the law already?

[Curly]

That includes fancy 209s

Aren't they against the law already?

Yup.

I think the muzzleloader laws are ok the way they are now.  I wouldn't mind if they made it sidelock only, but I know that won't happen.

The only other thing I think they should change (which I don't even really consider ML law) is the fact that they won't let you use a scoped muzzleloader, jacketed bullets, 209's, etc. during modern firearm season.  I know we already beat that subject to death a while back, but I'm still shocked  about the stupid law.

[Ray]

That includes fancy 209s

Aren't they against the law already?

for ml .but should be ok for modern.

[CP]

That includes fancy 209s

Aren't they against the law already?

Yup.

I think the muzzleloader laws are ok the way they are now.  I wouldn't mind if they made it sidelock only, but I know that won't happen.

The only other thing I think they should change (which I don't even really consider ML law) is the fact that they won't let you use a scoped muzzleloader, jacketed bullets, 209's, etc. during modern firearm season.  I know we already beat that subject to death a while back, but I'm still shocked  about the stupid law.

Why would anyone want to?  I can understand hunting with a traditional ML during modern firearms season but why a tricked out 209 abomination when you could use a scoped shotgun or modern rifle?

[bobcat]

Why would anyone want to?  I can understand hunting with a traditional ML during modern firearms season but why a tricked out 209 abomination when you could used a scoped shotgun or modern rifle?

Someone could use a muzzleloader in a firearm restriction area during modern season. That would be the one instance I can think of where a guy might want to do so.

[boneaddict]

Sometimes its just what we like to do, such as picking a caliber of a gun. Like a one shot Remington.  Some like the challenge, but not willing to go all the way to traditional.  Some may like the excitement of the muzzelloader but their eyes don't work too well for those open sites.  May be like why I hunt with a traditional bow during the modern, they are after a late season permit, but really like to hunt with thier weapon, but can't.

[CP]

 Both good points, I agree this is a stupid law.   I’m not sure that it is a law, maybe just a stupid writing or interpretation. 

I don’t see a problem with allowing a ‘limited” scope in ML season.  1X or even 2X.  I always wanted one like this:

[boneaddict]

Now that is awesome!

[Sagedawg]

 Hey in the movie "Outlaw Josie Wales" didnt he give them soldiers a wild river ride with a scoped muzzy like the one above? Id love to have one like that to play around with, but Id want a .32........blackpowder prarie doggin would be a blast.


   Sage

[deerslyr]

open a few more elk units on the west side

[Opportunist]

Open all westside units that archers and rifle hunters have, to general muzzle deer/elk!