$30 Access Permit for State Lands (WDFW, DNR, & Parks)

[singleshot12]

Doesn't our hunting gizmo we hang on our mirrors cover the hunters? We're paying for it in our licenses, aren't we ?

It does! but we will be paying double now.. us sportsmen can afford it right??    This whole thing is just a way to make a fast buck

[bobcat]

BOBCAT- what is the name of the lake that used to have native cutthroat? There has been a lot of changes in the planting program, are you sure they were not hatchery fish planted as fry? I know there are some native cutthroat around but not a lot.

Pattison Lake, or Patterson Lake, as it used to be known, until they changed the name back to the "original" name. And actually I don't know for sure the cutthroat were native. I just assumed they were, because I never heard of them ever planting cutthroat trout.

There must have been some kind of native fish in these lakes?  

[Hangfire]

Part of our license money goes for the fish planting. The state has planted cutthroat for years. The primary source of resident cutts are westslope fish from Kings lake and twinlakes. These two lakes are closed to fishing and there is traps on the inletts where the adults are trapped and eggs taken around the state for rearing. I had the opportunity to spend a couple of weeks helping the fellow in charge of spawning at twin lakes. 40 years ago.  Sea_run fish are trapped and spawned om the Cowlits. At one time the Beaver creek hatchery spawned cutts. These fish have been used in western Washington in streams, lakes and beaver ponds.

Fish planting began in the 1800's by the forest service. They would haul fish in milk cans on trains. They scattered fish all over, that is how a lot of the spiny ray got in the western states. When there were county game departments prior to 1933 there was a lot of random planting. I have heard there is a small population of native rainbow in Packwood lake. I understood they were trying to develop a brood stock with out much luck.

A lot of the high mountain lakes were void of fish. They have been planted by clubs, the state by pack trains, backpac and airplanes. Most other lakes had native resident fish or if stream access, they were rearing area for salmon and steelhead.

Our license fees pay for a lot of things. If they combine the agencies more and charge these other fee's, we will get less.

[Curly]

I always assumed the cutthroat were native that were in Pattision.  I think that if they were planted, more would have been caught.   We used to catch a few each year, for several years in a row and then we never would catch any or hear of any being caught after about 1985.

I also wonder if it is possible that they could have been cutthroat from Woodland Creek that would occasionally enter the lakes?  Hicks, Pattison, Long Lake, and Lois Lake are all connected by creeks that then flow out to the sound via Woodland Creek.  I know Woodland Creek has cutthroat trout in it.

[ICEMAN]

I grew up on Long Lake and we would occasionally pick up a cutt....

[billythekidrock]

I remember watching steelhead in Lake Lois.

[ICEMAN]

I remember watching steelhead in Lake Lois.

No kidding. My highschool buddy landed an awesome Stihlhead in Lois, to all the bankwatchers amazement.

Edit; hey Willie, maybe that was you?

[billythekidrock]

I remember watching steelhead in Lake Lois.

No kidding. My highschool buddy landed an awesome Stihlhead in Lois, to all the bankwatchers amazement.

Edit; hey Willie, maybe that was you?

I don't think so. I knew about steelies in there in the mid 70's, where you in HS back then? 

I never saw one caught out of there, but we used to watch them spawn in the creek all the time. My father caught his first steelie and it was in LL in the late 50's or early 60's.

[ICEMAN]

Uh..., my friend's fish was caught in about 1980... (Man I am getting old...    )

[fireweed]

I've studied the bills and contacted my reps.  MY CONCERNS:
*This funds PARKS first and foremost, with every $10 you spend, $8.50 goes to parks, and they can use the money for anything (DNR and WDFW must use there puny part for recreation).
*The plan is to bring non-payers, which are mostly park day-users and some DNR non-motorized into the fold with us payers (hunters, anglers, ATV tabs). Problem is their day use fee is way too high ($10 per site per day) to get tourists and casual users of parks to pay, they will JUST SAY NO. Leaving the hard-core outdoor types to continue to pay even more.
*No incentive for parks to be efficient. WHY oh WHY do they need their own Law Enforcement officers?  Most rural folks live in towns without police. We call the sherriff and survive just fine.
* $71 million is a pipe dream--this will never bring in that much.
*Administration (enforcement and collection) could eat profits.


Could it be fixed? Maybe.
-> Discount or FREE for people who already pay (Like US hunters/anglers)
-> $5 per site per day or one "week in Washingon" for $10 might not scare the tourists away from parks.  Afterall, we do want those day-users to pay.
-> Even spit of money between DNR, WDFW, Parks until the modest needs of DNR/WDFW are met, then fund the parks with anything that might be left.
-> force parks to be efficient: get rid of park ranger LEO, adopt out some parks to cities or counties, or even give isolated park land to the WDFW for awhile. 
-> Casual law enforcement attitude about writing tickets (no ticket for first time offenders, just put a pay envelope on the window).  There are just too many sites and too much land for this to be anything more than on the honor system, with a slight chance of a ticket.  Do we really want all that overhead anyway.

[Special T]

Sorry fireweed, they tired a "parking fee" at the state parks a few years ago, and it was int the $2-5 range, and guess what? Park Visitor days plumeted! I have a relative that works for the WA parks, he a said that many day users are lowere income and therefore VERY price sensitive. I agree with what they are trying to do, get more people who use the services to pay. (Even tho its just lip service) The fact is they are counting on hunters and fishermen to pay more, OR they are too incompetent to learn from their past lession of imposing daily fees. 

[ck]

I bet when all of this fails, they will privatize and/or sell our parks and DNR land.  Probably keep most of the wdfw land but lock out the public because they can't afford to maintain the areas but let enviro groups in to "restore" them.

[Curly]

They've already sold several State Parks that I know of.  It's amazing how private business can make a profit on parks but the State just seems to F it up........   Couldn't be due to the state employee unions and the high wages the State has to pay the employees..... 

[bigtex]

They've already sold several State Parks that I know of.  It's amazing how private business can make a profit on parks but the State just seems to F it up........   Couldn't be due to the state employee unions and the high wages the State has to pay the employees..... 

State Parks has been tranfering some of their parks to local governments for the past couple years. I know the Colville Tribe is/has taken over a park, there are a couple parks on Whidbey or Bainbridge Island looking to be transfered and I know there are other that have been transfered.

[billythekidrock]

They've already sold several State Parks that I know of.  It's amazing how private business can make a profit on parks but the State just seems to F it up........   Couldn't be due to the state employee unions and the high wages the State has to pay the employees..... 

State Parks has been tranfering some of their parks to local governments for the past couple years. I know the Colville Tribe is/has taken over a park, there are a couple parks on Whidbey or Bainbridge Island looking to be transfered and I know there are other that have been transfered.

State did the same with a park in Thurston County, then the County went to the Nisqually tribe to manage it.