Agenda is up for March 4-5 Fish & Wildlife Commission meeting (Spokane)

[bobcat]

They now have the agenda up for the meeting in Spokane:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2011/03/agenda_mar0511.html

This is an important meeting as this is the meeting in which they will discuss the proposed changes for the 2011 big game regulations. I won't be attending but I already sent in my written comments (which were due by Feb. 9).

A few of the topics that are most interesting to me:

6. HUNT TAG DRAWINGS, STATUS REVIEW – BRIEFING:
At the request of the Commission, Department staff will provide a briefing on results from rules implemented last year that created new categories for permit hunts.

Staff Report: Dave Ware, Game Division Manager, Wildlife Program

14. SPRING BLACK BEAR SEASONS AND REGULATIONS – RULE BRIEFING & PUBLIC HEARING:
Department staff will brief the Commission on proposed amendments to WAC 232-28-286 2010, 2011, and 2012 Spring Black Bear Seasons and Regulations. The Commission will consider adoption of permanent amendments at its April 8-9, 2011, meeting in Olympia.

Staff Report:
Donny Martorello, Ph.D., Carnivore, Furbearer, and Special Species Section Manager, Wildlife Program

17. DEER GENERAL SEASONS AND DEER AND ELK SPECIAL PERMIT REGULATIONS – RULE BRIEFING & PUBLIC HEARING:
Department staff will brief the Commission on proposed amendments to deer general season and deer and elk special permit regulations that would address crop and property damage problems, changes in population levels due to environmental conditions or disease outbreaks and to balance harvest levels with established population objectives.  The Commission will consider adoption of permanent amendments at its April 8-9, 2011, meeting in Olympia.

WAC 232-28-351, 2009-2011 Deer General seasons and definitions; 
WAC 232-28-355, 2011 Deer special permits; and
WAC 232-28-356, 2011 Elk Special Permits. 

Staff Report: 
Jerry Nelson, Ph.D., Deer and Elk Section Manager, Wildlife Program

Hopefully someone from here will attend and give us all a report back.

[MtnMuley]

I'm not sure of the meaning on #6.  Briefing on results?? 

[bobcat]

I'm sure Dave Ware will be talking about how successful they were with the changes to the permit system, because of all the extra money they made.  

That's what it means by "results." The resulting amount of revenue that was generated, due to the ridiculous number of extra categories they created.  

[MtnMuley]

That's also the only thing I could think of when they said "results".  Sad.

[Curly]

The category thing was Dave Ware's baby, so I'm sure he'll be claiming how great it was and how there are so many happy hunters now that that system is in place......... 

[dreamingbig]

Does anyone know if they are planning to keep Goose Prairie spike only for early archery elk while Little Naches is spike or cow only?  I am referring to the switch they made last year.  I didn't see any reference in their agenda.

Thanks

[bobcat]

I think that will stay the same. They didn't list any changes for the general elk seasons. I would guess that there might be more major changes beginning in 2012 because that will be a new 3-year cycle. (they do all their regulations in 3 year cycles, the current cycle being 2009-2011)

[ramslam]

I like how 10% of the ram tags were set aside for 65 & older hunters.   

[Elkaholic daWg]

I'm not sure of the meaning on #6.  Briefing on results?? 

 Actually guys, they want to know how many applicants got drawn for more than one permit in the deer or elk categories to see if Mr Wares numbers got skewed since unless it's a second animal tag, you can only kill one critter. I was there last March in Leavenworth  and used that possibility of this scenario to TRY to get the commission to tank the plan. I spoke of it on the side with Mr Douvier, he brought it up in discussion and they ( the Commission) directed  Ware and his buddies to give this briefing at this years spring meeting.

 Chances probably aren't good at all, but if there's a big brewhaha over it happening a lot, it could go away.

 A guy can dream can't he??

[billythekidrock]

The category thing was Dave Ware's baby, so I'm sure he'll be claiming how great it was and how there are so many happy hunters now that that system is in place......... 

I know for a fact that he got his butt chewed before and after by both hunters and F&W employees.

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

I noticed some of their proposed changes to the number of permits in the Blues was positive for hunters, but one change is a real drastic change.  There were 30 modern bull tags in GMU 162 (Dayton) this year they are pulling 14 out and creating a new hunt that is called TENTEN, basically you can hunt elk unit 1010 and GMU 163.  Anyone knows this unit is mostly private land and you an no longer hunt the National forest!  I hope they dont make this change, its pointless and only hinders your hunting opportunities when drawn.  They also added buck tags for the Watershed Gmu 157!  5 i believe, that would be fun to hunt in there.  Still no late archery deer tags in the Blues, anyone know why they only let modern and ml hunt the late season in the mountains?

[Curly]

The category thing was Dave Ware's baby, so I'm sure he'll be claiming how great it was and how there are so many happy hunters now that that system is in place......... 

I know for a fact that he got his butt chewed before and after by both hunters and F&W employees.

Good.  I hope he gets it chewed on some more. 

[Elkaholic daWg]

I'm not sure of the meaning on #6.  Briefing on results?? 

 Actually guys, they want to know how many applicants got drawn for more than one permit in the deer or elk categories to see if Mr Wares numbers got skewed since unless it's a second animal tag, you can only kill one critter. I was there last March in Leavenworth  and used that possibility of this scenario to TRY to get the commission to tank the plan. I spoke of it on the side with Mr Douvier, he brought it up in discussion and they ( the Commission) directed  Ware and his buddies to give this briefing at this years spring meeting.

 Chances probably aren't good at all, but if there's a big brewhaha over it happening a lot, it could go away.

 A guy can dream can't he??

 Skewed numbers Eh..../ Look at this  From Yakima Herald Republic......

 Specifically  THIS part

“I’m still trying to figure out what happened (with the low antlerless harvest),” Bernatowicz said. “I look at two things — hunter success rate and permit success rate. This year, just looking at the raw report, it looks like the number of people who didn’t hunt their permit went way up. When I look at that, I ask why?

“Last year for the first time you could apply for and get drawn for multiple permits. You could only shoot one elk, but you could possibly have been drawn for a branch-antler permit and an antlerless permit. The hunter success rate really wasn’t that low. But when you look at the permit success rate — total harvest based on the number of permits — that was really low.”


http://sportsyakima.com/2011/02/elk-count-shows-strength-in-numbers/


 There you go! Ammo to try to kill it again. (Still Dreaming)




 

[Curly]

Elkaholic daWg, that is some great ammo. 

And DW said at the commission meeting last year that the chances of someone drawing 2 permits was unlikely to happen.........  

[bobcat]

It may not be just that people got drawn for two permits and therefore didn't participate in the cow permit hunt they drew. It seems that there were probably just many people putting in for those cow permits for the first time ever just because they had nothing to lose. So they put in and maybe drew one but their motivation to hunt it wasn't like it would be for those people who put in only for cow permits every year.

[Elkaholic daWg]

 As evident by??

[bobcat]

As evident by??

The article you posted.

[Elkaholic daWg]

As evident by??

The article you posted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."



 Numbers, statistics. Yes I could be wrong ,but the Statistics (if available to the commission- which Ware did NOT have 2009's available in 2010) will prove that one way or the other.
 Now as for your thoughts......The are no statistics available anywhere to prove or disprove them.






"It may not be just that people got drawn for two permits and therefore didn't participate in the cow permit hunt they drew. It seems that there were probably just many people putting in for those cow permits for the first time ever just because they had nothing to lose. So they put in and maybe drew one but their motivation to hunt it wasn't like it would be for those people who put in only for cow permits every year."

[bobcat]

OK I have no idea what you're even trying to say.

Should I just remove my post that I'm guessing you disagree with?

It was a simple comment, not something that I would try to prove with statistics. It makes sense to me but maybe I didn't spell it out clear enough.

I just thought people who have primarily been putting in for bull permits all these years, and then all of a sudden when the rules change and they can apply for a cow elk permit without losing the points they have been saving for that bull permit, that they may not put as much effort into killing a cow as others might, or they may decide not to hunt at all.

I've stated on here many times that I disagree with the changes they made to the permit system last year and I don't think a person should be able to draw more than one permit for species. And it is likely that some of the decrease in cow elk harvest COULD be due to some of the permit holders also having a bull elk permit.

But even that theory I don't think can be proven one way or the other with statistics. 

[dreamingbig]

Btw, how do we get this meeting in a central location of the state every year?  I think they should be required to have it in Ellensburg every year so that more folks can attend.  Only seems fair to have it in the middle of the state.  Having it in Spokane or Seattle doesn't make sense.

[Curly]

It may not be just that people got drawn for two permits and therefore didn't participate in the cow permit hunt they drew. It seems that there were probably just many people putting in for those cow permits for the first time ever just because they had nothing to lose. So they put in and maybe drew one but their motivation to hunt it wasn't like it would be for those people who put in only for cow permits every year.

I agree.  Very possible that is the scenario.  Hard to come up with stats on the theory too, but common sense would say that it is likely.....

[bobcat]

Last year they had it in Olympia which worked out well for me. But really, I question whether it's even worth attending. They only give you three minutes to talk and I think they already have their minds made up anyway. I think the best thing to do is to send in written comments well before the meeting. The comments do get entered into the permanent record, I believe.

[Elkaholic daWg]

 2 years ago it was in Ellensburg, I was there as was Colockumelk and others. And I agree central part of the state is best!
 another point:
 If the legislature F/U the whole system,this could be one of the last meetings where it matters at all!
  Please attend if possible