Strong Will Pup......lil advice please

[Hornseeker]

OK, been a long time since Ive had a pup (13 years)... .

This lil springer pup is very persistant and hard headed so far. He's smart... but he has a few issues that I am getting frustrated over...well, actually just one.

To start with, he's 9 weeks old. Got him at 7 weeks. Since day one he decided going into a crate was a BAD DEAL and he will bark and cry frantically, almost chaotically when I close the door on him. He may do this for 15-20 minutes! there have been times I've yanked him out, told him no and quiet, spanked his rear end with a small leash, and pushed him back in, but I dont know if I should be doing that... I'm thinking he's a little young and I'd rather use other methods....

So, why do I lock him in the crate? Because at night I cant have him roaming around the house while we are asleep... and he'll be travelling some in a crate someday, so why not get them started on it now?

My question is... is he just still having separation anxiety from his bro's and sissies and mom and doesn't want to be alone? Is this just "normal" for a 9 week old pup? I know every pup is different... My FIL picked up a 14 week old springer pup from a breeder and the dog lays completely quiet in his kennel whenever you put him in there....I'm jealous... but he is twice as old as my pup too...

He does quit barking and freaking out eventually and has spent upwards of 6 1/2 hours in the crate sleeping at night with no probs... Its just that initial screaming fest that is driving me nuts... I should note, its any obstruction to his freedom. I built a 10X20 kennel in the backyard and when i put him in there he freaks out.... same as if we put him in the laundry room and just put up a baby gate... doesn't quite freak out on that one, but sits and whines and lets out a few barks... just never "content"...

Just a puppy I need to be patient???

Thanks alL!!!

[jackelope]

Read up on crate training if you haven't. It's really good stuff.
My dog is going to be 10 years old but we crate trained him from 8 weeks old. I think it takes a little time. Maybe put one of your tee shirts that you've worn in there with him so he has something that smells like you. How big is the crate? If it's a big crate, put a box in there to take up some space. Their crate will become their den if you will...a very secure place. If it's too big for a little guy, just make it smaller. That might help.

[quadrafire]

I know very little about training dogs, but what if you took the kennel for a ride with him in it, maybe even just around the block, get him used to being in it with the door CLOSED, but also in the house leave it open and give him treats in it, and incorporate it in a play setting. Make it fun. (DON"T MAKE IT SEEM LIKE A FORM OF PUNISHMENT)

My dog is kennel trained for night, all we do is open the cookie jar and she goes running for the kennel. Kinda cool. I rightly can't remember how we got to that point, I will ask my wife later (she did the training)

Hey Ernie check these folks out. They do a good job for us. look on the right hand side under behavior articles, there is one for kennel training.
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/

[jackelope]

I wouldn't smack him with the leash. You don't want him to associate that to going into the crate.
 

We got to a point with our dog where I would leave the crate open during the day and he would still spend the day mostly in the crate. I actually put a video cam on a tripod one day and recorded about 4 hours  on the crate. I bet he spent 90% of that 4 hours in the crate with the door open.

[runamuk]

What Jackelope says.....and at 9 weeks yes some separation issues...the main thing is make it a good place so one of your old tee's his toys a chew hoof or similar.  All my dogs learned to crate and be quiet so far my pug has been my biggest pita  he is 3 he makes noises like he is 3 dogs dying...I ignore him...I NEVER let him out when he is carrying on he must be quiet before that door opens  keep this in mind reward the behavior you want if they get to come out when carrying on they learn that.  At 9 weeks 15 minutes is actually not bad.  a can of pennies shook or tossed on the floor near the crate can break up a patterned barker as well but that is for older dogs not lil pups.

I am no dog expert just been keeping other peoples throw away dogs and crate training all of them for the last 20 some years so take what I say with a grain of salt

[vandeman17]

My pup would cry when I put her in her crate for the first week or two. What I did that really helped was I would pick a quote that I would say every time before she went in and as soon as she did, she got a treat. Also, once she was in and ate her treat, I laid next to the crate for a few minutes and talked to her and let her see me there. It took about a week or so and then I couldn't keep her out of her crate when I said that special quote and she no longer whined. Might not hurt to give it a shot.  

[pianoman9701]

Don't raise your voice and don't ever smack. I suggest a video called Water Dog. For the kennel at night, put a hot water bottle and a wind up ticking clock to go under the blanket. This'll be like lying on mom. If this is a small pup, you need to get up during the night to let him pee at least every four hours for the first couple of weeks to a month. Their little bladders are tiny.

[bobeyerite]

I have a pup that was whelped 1/19/2011. He goes to bed at 9:00 no trouble he cried and howled for a few days but I did nothing and he stopped. Now he howls in the morning after I let him in from his morning clean-out. I put him back into the crate while I go and clean-out and shave etc. That he objects to very strongly. Again I am doing nothing I don't tell him to shut-up nothing. 15-20 minutes of howling and crying and he goes quiet. I let him out when I'm done and ready for him to be out of his crate. I might add the first order of  business is he goes out side and cleans again for the second time........Bob

[JKEEN33]

Store all of their toys in the crate. Put them back in there when they are done playing with them. Don't use the crate as punishment. I crate trained my dog from the 1st day I brought him home. He wimpered the first few nights, but now loves his crate. I keep the door open and he goes in when he is tired. I close the door before going to bed. I don't lock him in the day. I don't want him to equate the crate with punishment.

All pups get seperation anxiety. They like being with others. I would not whack the dog, but I did train mine not to barck. If he barks I know there is something wrong. After they have formed that bond with you simply scolding them is enough. They hate dissapointing their owners.

[Dirty Mike]

i had the same problem, i have a 10 month old german shepard that ive had since the same age as yours. i would not put anything in there such as tee shirt, because it will only teach her to chew things you dont want to, also you dont want that vet bill when it gets stuck in the stomach, i would only put in chew toys that are ok

[Hornseeker]

Thanks for all the good advice. I have read up on it... and I have definitely not been trying to make the crate into ANY kind of punishment... I just want him to know that there will be times he'll go in there...and I'd rather not have to listen to him bawl his brains out for 10-15 minutes...

If he is tired, after that initial bawling he'll fall alseep and be good to go, but if he's not tired, it just takes one little household noise to get him riled again...

I need to stay patient... keep rewarding him for his good behavior... and ignore him when he's freaking out...

THanks again!

[jackelope]

i had the same problem, i have a 10 month old german shepard that ive had since the same age as yours. i would not put anything in there such as tee shirt, because it will only teach her to chew things you dont want to, also you dont want that vet bill when it gets stuck in the stomach, i would only put in chew toys that are ok

My intent of this was not to make it a chew toy. If your dog needs a chew toy then give him a chew toy. My dog won't chew socks or anything except for his chew toys. The t-shirt was a blanket of sorts. You can use anything. The pup develops a bond to you....he wants to be with you, thats why he's whining. Give him something that smells like you and a lot of times it will help. You could also put an alarm clock in there that ticks loudly...white noise=security.
10-15 minutes of whining from a 9 week old pup is nothing IMO. Should almost be expected. He wants his mama back (or you, Ernie) to feel safe and warm and secure.

 

[Hornseeker]

10-4 on the shirt. I have one in there, unfortunately, its not a well worn one...I need to get a stinky one and get it in there....

10-15 minutes of whining

Dude.... whining does not quite cover the raucus this little chit is raising... I mean to tell ya... I've been close to 6-10 full grown hounds baying a bear at close quarters.... and the bear stays on the ground... I think if this pup was in his kennel near that bear... he'd tree in an instant... or just fall over dead!!!!

 

[quadrafire]

I think you need to keep sleeping on the floor next to him for the next few weeks/months. Maybe he's a slow learner

[runamuk]

10-4 on the shirt. I have one in there, unfortunately, its not a well worn one...I need to get a stinky one and get it in there....

10-15 minutes of whining

Dude.... whining does not quite cover the raucus this little chit is raising... I mean to tell ya... I've been close to 6-10 full grown hounds baying a bear at close quarters.... and the bear stays on the ground... I think if this pup was in his kennel near that bear... he'd tree in an instant... or just fall over dead!!!!

 

I know that sound my pug does it well  so go over to ye old shooting box and find a pair of earplugs  it at least dampens it some

and yeah I was also one to use a shirt or old pillow as a bed not a chew...and some breeds just dont ever kill, chew and eat things like shirts others will chew and eat almost anything....

[Rick]

Totally ignore him when he is acting like that in the kennel. If you don't, he'll learn that causing the commotion will get him the attention he wants.

At that point,you may never be able to break them of the habit.

[Hornseeker]

Totally ignore him when he is acting like that in the kennel. If you don't, he'll learn that causing the commotion will get him the attention he wants.

At that point,you may never be able to break them of the habit.

Makes good sense.

[BallisticsNut]

I have had my fair share of pups over the past seven years.  Thankfully, my youngest is nearly 18 months ATM and only gives me trouble because she has so much energy. 

A lot of really good points here, Ill add a couple that have worked well for me even if they have already been mentioned. 

First off, find a treat that your dog really really loves!  When your ready to kennel, take that treat and place it in the kennel prior.  Dont tell her/him or let them see you do it.  They will find it on there own.  You want them to feel this is a place of comfort.  Second, do you own any "kong" toys?  If not, go buy a few.  Get the small puppy kong for now.  Its shaped some what like a peanut with a hole in one side. Made up of old tires, from what I hear, pretty durable.  For starters, try a spoonful of peanut butter.  Once the pup goes in, give them the kong.  Should keep them busy for 20 minutes or so.  This should get them past the seperation anxiety.  Next, always feed the pup in the kennel.  They have to relate the kennel is not a bad place but a good place.  lastly, if the whinning continues... someone mentioned a can full of pennies.  Better description.. take an empty soda can, place a couple nickles and half a dozen pennies inside and tape the top closed.  Now, take the can (or a couple if needed) and place on top of the kennel near the edge so that it will fall if the pup jumps on the door.  After placing the pup in the kennel, stand in the adjacent room with a second can.  After the pup finishes his kong treat, if he starts to get out of hand, reach around the doorway (without exposing yourself) and shake the can.  He will stop!... when he starts up again.. do this again... he will stop.. He will learn eventually that the crying gets the can.. they dont like the can (its the loud noise and type of noise they have issues with).  The purpose of the first can on top of the kennel, they will learn from you shaking the can, that when they jump on the door or sides of the kennel, this will knock over the can and "stun" them.  They dont like this either. 

This has worked with all my dogs and has taken less then a month to train each one.  Oh yea, ALWAYS keep the kennel door open when not in use. Always try and keep some treats, toys or food inside.  This will get them to go into the kennel and try it out on their own.  Once they realize this is a safe secure place, they will take to sleeping there on there own.  Eventually, when you say KENNEL... it means to them TREAT!

Good luck, let us know how this goes. 

[huntnfmly]

Totally ignore him when he is acting like that in the kennel. If you don't, he'll learn that causing the commotion will get him the attention he wants.

At that point,you may never be able to break them of the habit.

thats what we did with our springer when we first got him and started to crate train him he freaked the first couple times.Dont let him out when he is going crazy wait till hes quite then he can come out.It will take less time than you think hang in there

[Happy Gilmore]

more exercise. You've got a big roaming field dog, not a lap dog. He's got too much energy for his current lifestyle.

[Hornseeker]

Good stuff, thank you much!

LMAO... last night I wore a sweatshirt in the shop for a couple hours and before putting him to bed I turned it inside out and balled it up in the front of the kennel. He was BUSHED because my FIL's springer pup is at our house right now and they play Non Stop...

Anyhow, I didn't get up and get him out early enough I guess.... oops... tonight I will get up and get him out after about 4-4 1/2 hours... anyhow, this morning at 4:30 when I got him out, My Sweatshirt had pee on it... nothing else...just my sweatshirt! "Piss on You!" he said... I will not make that mistake again. i read where at 12-14 weeks they can pretty much spend the night without peeing... sound right? If I put him in about 10-1030 and get him out at about 5:30?

Thanks all!

and oh, Ballisticnut, thanks. Thats a great idea about just putting treats in there for him to find now and again.... I'll get a can set up....

[vandeman17]

It took my pup until a few months old before she could go all night without having to pee. Just have him pee right before you put him in, set your alarm for about half way through the night and then you should be fine. Before you know it, he will sleep all night and you won't have to worry. 

[SpringerFan]

What size crate are you using? Too big and they will pee / poop in it. My Springer would wake up once or twice a night whining. I would carry him to the backyard. Put him on a leash. Let him pee / poop and carry him back to the crate. He learned real quick and still goes to his kennel when he is tired at just over a year and a half.

Lots of good advice. NEVER let him out when he is throwing a fit. NEVER punish him for being a puppy. The crate needs to be a safe place. Not a place for time out.

Stick with it. Be very patient. They pick up on your frustration. Above all, be consistent.

[Hornseeker]

Puppies are fun....

This morning I took him out of his crate and put him on the deck... instead of going down the stairs and peeing in the yard, he walked over to his outside bed and PEED on IT!! WTF?

Anyhow, I will continue to take him down the stairs for now on!

he slept in his kennel yesterday early evening for like an hour with the door open!!! Yay!   

[BallisticsNut]

he slept in his kennel yesterday early evening for like an hour with the door open!!! Yay!

Thats great.  Thats very good progress.  This means he is not afraid of the kennel of being locked up.  Good job!

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

Kids don't grow up in 2 weeks and neither do pups. You may have a few long nights but it will pass and they will love the crate. Ignoring them let's them know whining accomplishes nothing, just like kids! Ignore him all night and he will learn it's bed time and not play time.  Also 2 dogs is easier than one if you want another. I put my pup out side from day one with the 6 month old and he didn't whine once cause he could sleep with his sister.  Just be patient, they are very similar to a newborn kid. You won't know if he is hard headed till he is big enough to outrun you ; ) so get him to learn sit stay and come now. I used game dog, it's a great training book. No shock collars or force training. Basically start early and work with them often.

[Hornseeker]

I used water dog for my lab so was familiar with that and have read game dog twice now in the last month..

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

I used water dog for my lab so was familiar with that and have read game dog twice now in the last month..

Its a great set of books to train your dog, it's like my dog respects me and doesn't
Want to disappointment me by not listening.  It's crazy, I would reccomend it to anyone, you just has to start early and your golden!

[Hornseeker]

Things are getting better every day... last night he did not freak out when I put him to bed NOR when i put him back at 230....  This morning I put him in  his kennel to eat and when he was done he let out about 5-10 whines and that was it... then I let him out for being a good boy!

[rasbo]

if the pup loves you and you feel he wants to be with you wear a shirt,and then put it in the crate.my pup stopped whining immediately,she still sleeps in the crate,when I get ready for bed she walks in and hits the hay,

[ghosthunter]

My lab did the same thing. Here s what I did.
The crate was in the dinning room. I would take her out for airing than put her in the crate. I covered the crate with a light blanket making sure there was air spaces. When she cried i would go out and lay on the floor with my fingers through the wire. She would lay down against my fingers and go to sleep . I would than sneak back to bed. 
When she was  4-5 weeks home. I would get up if she was yelping for no reason and shake the kennel. A week of that and quite all night.

The next challenge was in the crate in my car. She would howl the whole time I was driving. After about 3 weeks of that .i got up one Sunday am put here in her crate in the car and drove around the block at 5mph. every time she made a sound i gently bumped the brake just enough to make her fall.
1 hour later she was silent and never made another sound in the crate.
She is so quite that a couple times I have forgot she was there.

Do what works but never beat up on them. And try to use methods they do not associate with you.