Dave Ware's March 4th Presentation on Special Permits

[bobcat]

What's funny is Dave mentioned how all the extra money was being used for hunter access but he never went into any specifics. I think if they actually did something useful with the money, he would have talked about it. But he didn't. So I think the extra money was used to keep some of their employees working, who otherwise would have been without a job due to lack of funds.

[billythekidrock]

[Special T]

That is such a good bumpersticker! Its Makes a statement to those that have a clue, but leaves bunnyhugers in the fog. I LIKE IT!

[washelkhntr]

We need to get Kain to make some of them. I'd buy a few! This guy is a joke, and a bad one at that.

[grundy53]

I do not like the new system, and I hate the way they draw names. They explained it to me on the phone but it was too confusing to understand. when people can draw tags with one point and one guy in this state has 26 points and doesn't get drawn there is something very wrong with the system.  I have talked to Dave Ware about this and about the 10 or more point category. If we are going to keep this system which they will it produces too much money for them, then I love the Idea of a category that only lets people with 10 or more points apply.  I even think areas that only have 10 or fewer tags should only be available to people with 8 or more points.  I just wrong that us guys that have been waiting 16 years for certain tags get nothing while some lucky guy with 1 or 4 points gets the tag.  I believe you should have to sacrifice some time to draw some of our very special tags, and a few of us have for far too long.

they did reduce categories this year, in the OIL tags.  I disagree with setting a certain number aside for guys with 10 or more points.  Some of those high point guys may only apply for one unit, perhaps if they applied for 2,3, or 4 they would have drawn tags in the past.  I've drawn what I consider to be 4 premium tags in this state in 15 years of applying and of those I got 1 first choice, 1 third choice and 2 fourth choices.  Had I only put one choice down I would only have drawn one good hunt in 15 years.  that's what some guys do and then they ***** about never drawing anything.  I don't feel too sorry for those folks.  

I have been putting in for the two choices in quality,as much as I can and before the new system I was putting in for 3 of the 4 choices we had for elk. An example of what I was talking about earlier is, a guy I know drew the green river watershed elk hunt 2 years ago when they had 3 tags. The other two people with the elk tags had drawn with 1 and 4 points, he had 12.  I don't believe they should have been able to put in for it so soon mostly because how they do the drawings is f'd up. There is too many examples of people drawing with very little points when guys have been waiting a 1/4 of their life for some of these tags.  I had 14 points a couple years ago and didn't draw one of the 3 tags given out in the wenaha for elk muzzy, I'm not saying I should have been drawn. I'm saying someone that had close to my points or more should have been drawn before the people who did get drawn, they had 2,4,6 points. The way they draw is screwd, the odds that those 3 get drawn before any other of us with 10 or more points has got to be amazing. My point is the way they do the drawing doesn't make the point system work, if it worked you wouldn't see 3 tags go to people with 2,4 and 6 points when perhaps thousands of other numbers are going against their 4,16 and 36 names in the hat.  Got to go for now, will bitch later.

I ABSOLUTELY disagree. I BUY might special permit application every year the same as you. I pay just as much as you. What makes you any better then me? I think we should have the same opportunities. If you have 12 points that you have earned then that should be your only advantage. Everyone who pays the same amount of money should be able to put in for the same hunts.

[Curly]

What's funny is Dave mentioned how all the extra money was being used for hunter access but he never went into any specifics. I think if they actually did something useful with the money, he would have talked about it. But he didn't. So I think the extra money was used to keep some of their employees working, who otherwise would have been without a job due to lack of funds.

In that audio file, didn't DW say that they would discuss the hunter access later in the meeting?  Or did I just hear him wrong?

[bobcat]

What's funny is Dave mentioned how all the extra money was being used for hunter access but he never went into any specifics. I think if they actually did something useful with the money, he would have talked about it. But he didn't. So I think the extra money was used to keep some of their employees working, who otherwise would have been without a job due to lack of funds.

In that audio file, didn't DW say that they would discuss the hunter access later in the meeting?  Or did I just hear him wrong?

Possibly...I'll have to listen to it again tonight after the kids go to bed.

[willapawapiti]

I listened to the recording and was most shocked with the possible change of raising the application fee for each quality hunt to $13!  Ouch!  By the way, I was a guy with 25 points and didn't get drawn! Bummed? Yes. But hey it's a random drawing, no guarantees

[Wacenturion]

Nothing will every change with the current staff in Wildlife Management......just keeps getting worse.  I would elaborate but it makes no difference whatever, so there isn't any point.... pun intended

[Elkaholic daWg]

 Asd Long as we we must deal with Pugetropolis, we will get NoWare and this....

[SkookumHntr]

-The whole thing is 

[Elkaholic daWg]

What's funny is Dave mentioned how all the extra money was being used for hunter access but he never went into any specifics. I think if they actually did something useful with the money, he would have talked about it. But he didn't. So I think the extra money was used to keep some of their employees working, who otherwise would have been without a job due to lack of funds.

  I finally with my dial up got the audio (bad quality) downloaded and on a  MP3CD so I could listen on my Blue ray player.
  What I have so far listened to it I heard him say "we'll talk about this later"

Bobcat you are probably right though.

  My beef with this whole pack of lies we have all been fed is this;
 Does Ware not SPEW the need to use (biologists) science to set numbers of special permits awarded every year as necessary to promote the health of these deer and elk herds, yet when HIS BABY  screws up and skews the science involved it's NO BIG DEAL!!
 If permits AREN"T hunted is it not counter productive? Could they not just upgrade their draw system to prevent multiple SP's, or just rid us of this menace?

[jharstad]

i might be wrong but does every body turn in there hunting reports and catch record cards like there supposed to according to the wdfw regs? i do and the most points i had b4 i got drawn was 4 (margrette cow tag archery) kind of intersting if you ask me. whos to say they dont look at that stuff if your name comes up. but i can b wrong. and i havent listen to the presintation

[dreamingbig]

I listened to it... I mentioned it in this thread but didn't get any response.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,72082.30.html

At that time I wrote...

"I am listening to Dave Ware's recap on the new permit system and a book title is coming to mind... "How to Lie with Statistics."

Some takeaways:

Bottom line, odds went down across the board (more hunter apps + less permits available).  Looking to increase permit fees in 2012; $6.50 to $13.00 in 2012 for quality hunt permits.  143k total permit apps in 2009 vs 233 permit apps in 2010.  Suggestion to have more special category for people with more than 10 points.  673 people were drawn for multiple permits; 311 for elk."

I have very little faith in the commission and those that work for the WDFW department.  The questions from the commissioners showed that they really are out of touch with what is actually going on and that the department can craft presentations to get anything passed.

[Snapshot]

The questions from the commissioners showed that they really are out of touch with what is actually going on and that the department can craft presentations to get anything passed.

Something to keep in mind is that commissioners come and go. Every one of them that was there ten years ago is now gone. And as new commissioners come along they have to be educated by the department and, as important, by us hunters; the day they stop asking questions is the day to worry about. Yes, the department sells their ideas through fancy presentations, but a well-informed commission can pull the rug out from under a bad idea in the blink of an eye.