Force fetch ruined my dog?

[beau6hunter]

my dog would fetch anything you would throw accept her bumper which is what i wanted so i atttempted to force fetch and now she wont fetch anything and she is scared of me when i try to entice her with any thing to fetch please help me any suggestions i dont wanna get rid of her but i will not just have a house pet i want a hunting dog! please help

[vandeman17]

I am no pro but if it were me, I would try anything you can to make it fun for the dog again. Maybe toss something a few feet and if she picks it up, give her a treat and praise the heck out of her. Positive reinforcement is pretty much the best thing you can do in my opinion. 

[Happy Gilmore]

it is common. Don't panic. Forcing a dog is a tight-rope walk and you'll have resentment and problems somewhere and what you are describing is normal.

You need to get with someone who knows what they are doing to get you through it.

People have different ideas and standards for FFing a dog.  It has nothing to do with playing fetch and your dog bringing stuff back to you.

Where do you live? maybe we can find someone to help you finish your pup?

[beau6hunter]

i live in ellenburg and frequent yakima this dog was so smart and promising but now she is just scared i would love to keep her but not spend a fortune to try to keep her and have the same end result a house pet!

[Happy Gilmore]

i live in ellenburg and frequent yakima this dog was so smart and promising but now she is just scared i would love to keep her but not spend a fortune to try to keep her and have the same end result a house pet!

sent you a PM-

Ryan at Longhollow would be a good resource but, he might still be down in south training. Lee Salmon at Wind River could help you out in Ephrata-

You could probably do a few training sessions on FF with someone and get sent home with "homework" and re-visit them on weekends. Someone needs to watch what you are doing to make sure you are doing it right. Little mistakes can make a big impact-

[beau6hunter]

ok i will definately look into it i dont force fetch her anymore after the three tries i have just been trying positive reinforcement but as soon as i say the command fetch or shake something in front of her or throw something she willl run to her bed if inside or curl aroud my legs if outdoors its so frusttrating she was fetching two days after i got her at eight weeks and knows all commands but is now scared i believe she picks up on my frustration maybe what about reprimanding her for not doing as commanded does that work at all im willing to give it a shot im so close to getting rid of her i just dont wanna spend all my time and effort for her to jst be sent packin after i research another litter for a tried and true line!

[flinger]

IMHO To young at 8 weeks to try and overwhelm her with to much training let her be a puppy and be her playmate but also make sure she understands that you are the alpha Companionship and Trust makes training sooo much nicer

[beau6hunter]

she is 12 weeks now and i never had any expectations for her until i saw that she piched up every command  the first few tries and then after 3 weeks one day of playing fetch with a new toy she doesn't wanna listen to fetch or come now should i just revert to what i originally did when i got her and have no expectations and when should i start expecting her to start actin like a good dog fetching coming and sitting!? and so on!

 

[Heredoggydoggy]

Have you tried putting some bird scent on the play toys?  Pheasant, chukhar, quail scent, etc.  Might make the game more interesting.  At that age, it should be just a fun game.  Discipline can come later when pup's character is tougher.

[beau6hunter]

yes i have tried that before the force fetch failure and i bought quail chukar and baby pheasants that she already knows the scent of so i think maybe just go back the she to small and never care whether she listens! but im not sure thats good either because if she never develops the hunt and retrieve hunger i will get rid of her but i would rather do so at a young age so she is more disireable! dont take this the wrong way i would be so sad to see her go but got her mainly for huntin secondly for a house pet!

[Gamblin Guy]

You're trying to force fetch a 12 week old puppy and you expect it, at 12 weeks, to start actin like a good dog fetching coming and sitting!? and so on!

[huntnfmly]

howdy i understand your frustruation i know alot of people may disagree but imho that is a little too young to expect to much you really need to let her be a puppy for awhile we have a springer and we are going to send him off very soon alot of pro trainers that i have talked with like to wait till they are a yr old i have noticed with our springer he is picking things up nuch quicker than when he was a pup and is getting more birdy as he grows hope this helps hang in there sounds like a good dog starting to fetch as soon as she did just make it fun and only do a few reps at a time and end on a good note

[BallisticsNut]

maybe what about reprimanding her for not doing as commanded does that work at all im willing to give it a shot im so close to getting rid of her i just dont wanna spend all my time and effort for her to jst be sent packin after i research another litter for a tried and true line!

Reprimand does not work, only makes them more fearful.
 
I have taken a few classes on dog training but never taken a class to train a dog for retrieving for hunting but I have trained a few dogs to retreive for fun. 
Someone said, start off short distance and work your way up.  Sounds like good advice to me. 

Dogs learn to be sensitive or fearful of certain commands, actions and items.  Desensitizing them can be a long process but it has to be slow.  I would start off with the item and reintroduce it to them, let them know its not going to hurt them, nor you.  If they take interest, reward them with excitement, praise and give them a treat.  Get him/her to mouth it and reward them when they do.  Move further away just a few inches or a foot.  Use exitement in your voice and encourage the pup to pick it up.. when he/she does.. reward with exicitement, praise and a treat.  Move further and do again and again.  Wont be long before they are running around again.  Just becareful not to yell, or discipline the pup during this time, you will have a long road if you do. 
DONT give up on the pup, get training yourself if needed.  The pup only knows what you teach, if he fears you, its because something you have done, try not to do that again.
 

[Rick]

12 weeks is way to young. They need to have all their adult teeth before you start. Try again in about 6 months.

[ChesapeakeMan]

Force fetch is not ruining your dog.  IMPROPER force fetch is ruining your dog.  Force fetching is difficult at best when done by someone experienced and very difficult for the beginner.  Several conditions should be favorable before you even begin the process.  The dog should be at least six months old so that they have permanent teeth.  Dog should be completely healthy, meaning ear infections and similar ailments should be taken care of so that the ears are not tender in any way.  The animal must have it's obedience work down perfectly.  This is the foundation to begin force fetch work.  Once you start you must finish the process.  YOU WILL end up with a very confused and messed up dog if you start and don't complete.  I have seen the process take a week and a half but two to three weeks is the norm.  Some iron willed dogs have taken a month or more.  Three sessions isn't going to cut it.  Usually the dogs will get two lessons a day for the duration of the process.  Please don't take this too personally but it sounds like you have no idea what you are doing.  Find someone who does and give the dog a chance.  I seriously doubt that if you have only tried it three times that you have done any lasting damage.  But you really need to find some good help.  Whether it be book, video, experienced friend or trainer.  It can be done, it just isn't easy and you need to take the proper steps to do it right or you will do more harm than good.

[Bluemoon]

Just curious what kind of dog?   If age is correct you started way to young to force anything...If you ever do have to force fetch any dog have someone else do it so you are always the fun one....     

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

Read game dog gun dog it water dog. They can help you out tremendously. Also they have DVDs now for those title which include a section on force training if you end up really needing that. If it's natural for the pup to fetch you should not need to use the forc fetching as much. My dog took a few weeks to get used to the bumper after I switched from sticks and tennis balls.

[gasman]

Way to young to start FF 

Let her be a pup.

Play with her, encourage her, teach her sit, stay, come, but make it fun........

Tasty treat's, like small pieces of "hot dogs" after she does some thing wright, will go a long way. Treats when you first start FF Will help also. they will want to do better to get a treat and to make you happy.

Have fun right now, and start the work training after adult teeth are in.

Work with an experienced trainer before you start FF. Learn from them the proper technique.

[Happy Gilmore]

WHOOOHHHH---Don't do anything but have fun at that age- holy-smokes!

The best pro wouldn't try FFing a dog until they've lost all their baby teeth and most still even wait until a month or two after that.......maybe at around 8 months would be a better time to consider it.

nothing more than gentle reminders at that age- nothing to do with breeding or making a hunting dog.

My young dog I spent two weeks teaching "HOLD". Spent another week teaching fetch then another week just on force fetch and collar conditioning.

Buy Bill Hillmans puppy DVD ASAP! It will be worth its weight in gold to your dog and help you along the way- watch it and follow it closely. You'll see he has fun with puppy, short sessions and simple lessons..

[wildweeds]

WHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  CAN YOU TELL I'M A LITTLE HOT? For starters, have you got any kids? If you do I highly doubt that they were potty trained before the age of 2 and could do trigonmetry and nuclear physics at 8 years old.Your pup needs to be a pup and that pup of yours has about at least another 15-20 months worth of puppy in it. I DON'T CARE WHAT BREED IT IS,they need to be pups and do what pups do.If you wanted a started dog that would do everything you desired you should have bought one,not tried to turn a 3 month old into what you wanted overnight. BACK OFF IT AND LEAVE IT ALONE. Teach the dog basic things like kennel and here or come,leave the pressure stuff alone or your gonna end up with a turd.

  Don't blame the force fetch for ruining your dog....................the guy that ruined your dog looks back at the culprit every morning in the mirror.I really doubt that any retriever trainer with any ethics at all would be red hot to trot on force fetching a dog before the age of 18 months,they got to be with it enough between the ears to not fold up like a cheap tent under the pressure.Sounds to me like you want it all right now and yesterday.I bet the kennel you bought your dog from would be more than willing to take the thing back before you make matters worse.

she is 12 weeks now and i never had any expectations for her until i saw that she piched up every command  the first few tries and then after 3 weeks one day of playing fetch with a new toy she doesn't wanna listen to fetch or come now should i just revert to what i originally did when i got her and have no expectations and when should i start expecting her to start actin like a good dog fetching coming and sitting!? and so on!

[beau6hunter]

lol wild weeds maybe you are not getting it i never hurt the dog i opened her mouth put the bumper in and congragulated her but she already knows all her commands and did by 10 weeks so that is the only reason i wanted her to try to fetch a bumper i see thnow that any ffing was a bad idea but i was less than 5 mins of effort and if you read my previous posts never expected anything of her this is not my first hunting dog but is my smartest fastest learning hunting dog so after all the good stuff for one day just opening her mouth to change all that was unexpected now im rethinking my wants because of all the other positive replies on here and all the research i am doing. oh ya she was potty trained the day i got her only two accidents my fault for sleeping all night since i got her and she knows more commands better than your closest huntin partner already! so for you to try to belittle me at all for any reason id say you have some social issue you need help with but thanks all for the input and she is a gsp)heeler hense the added  intelligence

[beau6hunter]

lol as i sent my last post my pup brought me here first fetching toy and she is stiil fetching now lol talk about fluke 7 days of no fetching now back in action!

[6x6in6]

lol wild weeds maybe you are not getting it i never hurt the dog i opened her mouth put the bumper in and congragulated her but she already knows all her commands and did by 10 weeks so that is the only reason i wanted her to try to fetch a bumper i see thnow that any ffing was a bad idea but i was less than 5 mins of effort and if you read my previous posts never expected anything of her this is not my first hunting dog but is my smartest fastest learning hunting dog so after all the good stuff for one day just opening her mouth to change all that was unexpected now im rethinking my wants because of all the other positive replies on here and all the research i am doing.

That was about the most painful single sentence to read in so many different ways. 

[beau6hunter]

also this dog can smell a dog treat that was in your hand 5 mins before so i have only been able to give them to her after a couple good runs then she is only interested in finding more treats she'll try to get in my pocket i even put them in ziplock and she has never had any thing like hotdogs only dog food and puppy treats should i use hot dogs or something like that!

[beau6hunter]

you like that no punctuation lol ba
hahaha

[gasman]

Hot dogs are cheap. Buy a pack, cut them small and keep them on the fridge untill you train.
The pup thinks she is getting something special for doing some thing right (when training).


I had treats for my dogs and rewards for training. I kept them seperate and when the hot dogs came out, they knew it was tine to impress. They like the reward better then the treats.

[vandeman17]

Hot dogs are cheap. Buy a pack, cut them small and keep them on the fridge untill you train.
The pup thinks she is getting something special for doing some thing right (when training).


I had treats for my dogs and rewards for training. I kept them seperate and when the hot dogs came out, they knew it was tine to impress. They like the reward better then the treats.

My dog already has gas here and there that will clear a room and peel the paint off the walls. I can only imagine if I fed her hotdogs here and there. 

[Stilly bay]

SHELL OUT SOME MONEY AND BUY A PROGRAM AND FOLLOW IT LIKE IT WAS THE BIBLE. IF READING IS A PROBLEM BUY A DVD SET. IN FACT DONT EVEN CONTEMPLATE A BOOK, JUST COUGH UP SOME MONEY FOR DVD'S. EVAN GRAHAM, MIKE LARDY, OR FOWL DOGS. IF ALL ELSE FAILS YOU CAN SELL THE DVD'S REAL FAST BECAUSE THEY WORK.

I don't care how well you think your pup knows its commands, at 12 weeks there is no foundation to start force fetch work.

[Happy Gilmore]

you have a GSP- the books mentioned aren't going to help much- maybe a pointer person can make a recommendation?

force fetching isn't putting a bumper in a dogs mouth FYI-

You seem a little confused on the training thing- teach him good obedience, potty training and have fun with him. When he's closer to a year old- maybe look for some help from a pointer guy for introduction to bird and gun-

Like force fetching- there are right ways and wrong ways to go about it-

[beau6hunter]

totally understandable happy thanks! i have been training myself all day to just realize she just showed a streak of promise, that is all! and she is still a baby! i will keep at the human training and wait on the dog lol

[wildweeds]

And your doing this to a SHORTHAIR? Good god the thing will be a neurotic nightmare by the time it gets old enough to accept training.Here's a really good piece of advice and read it carefully......................................LEAVE THAT SUM BETCH ALONE, Work on "HERE or COME,Kennel and knowing it's name" when it has MASTERED these things 100 percent of the time with distractions you'll be ready to move on to the next level. Also buy the BOOK "Wing and Shot" by the late Robert Wehle, Read it once,then turn around and read it again,I loaned my copy out and never got it back but you really need to read the chapter on "Raising a puppy" or something like that.That shorthair has got some natural retrieve, it also is a puppy and in being so has the attention span of........... bout that much. Don't take it that I'm being hard on ya...............Everybody screws up their first pointing dog and only the honest ones won't lie about it,I been there and done it.The wing and shot book covers force fetching and if memory serves me correctly they talk about that type of training AFTER the dog has learned to point and hold game.And another thing.......DO NOT TEACH THE DOG TO SIT that is the very worst thing you can do with a young pointer,they learn for that to be their security blanket,"If I sit I can't be doing anything wrong" in doing so they will saftey up around game and assume a sit when pressure is applied to them around game.The sit command is most often if at all taught well after they are broke around game.

   Buy the book, read the first three chapters about 3 times,work on the stuff in the first three chapters and then move along IF THE DOGS BEHAVIOR WARRANTS IT.The dog will let you know through body language and behavior when it is time to progress to the next step.

  Another book would be "Training pointing dogs" By Paul Long it's another very old book written LONG before the inventions of e-collars and electronic traps.

  For a more modern approach consider "The Perfect Start,Perfect Finish" DVD set By John Hahn of Perfection kennels.

  For a more personal approach there is a training clinic in May in wenatchee,which would greatly benefit you I can guarantee it.Covers from puppies such as yours to adult training techniques

  "Pointing dog workshop"  May 14-15 contact Louise Day @ 509-664-6857

you have a GSP- the books mentioned aren't going to help much- maybe a pointer person can make a recommendation?

force fetching isn't putting a bumper in a dogs mouth FYI-

You seem a little confused on the training thing- teach him good obedience, potty training and have fun with him. When he's closer to a year old- maybe look for some help from a pointer guy for introduction to bird and gun-

Like force fetching- there are right ways and wrong ways to go about it-

[huntnfmly]

totally understandable happy thanks! i have been training myself all day to just realize she just showed a streak of promise, that is all! and she is still a baby! i will keep at the human training and wait on the dog lol

[beau6hunter]

as before stated she is 100 on all commands already! and she knows fetch and give but i must have scared her by opening her mouth but thanks all info is appreciated!

[GWP]

Well, I think the FF has been covered. STOP, which you have figured out. At this age keep it fun and light and happy. You can start training not by 'training' but by giving her a command for something she is already doing. When she happens to be coming toward you anyway, say 'here ***' and praise her for being 'so good' when she gets to you. Keep doing this for awhile, and she will respond when you call her. If you see her stop, say 'Whoa'. Praise her for stopping. 'Take it' when she picks something up. 'Fetch' every time she brings you a toy. You get the idea. Keep it light at this age.
Track training is good fun and using cheese makes it fun and rewarding for the dog. NO 'HARD' CORRECTIONS at this time in her life. Plenty of time for that. Make everything so easy the dog can't fail. If the dogs fails, back up two steps and start from there. 'Come' or coming with a soft whistle is good, using food as a reward. Carry some around in your pocket ALL THE TIME. Take hotdogs or liver and boil the crap out of it, then cut it into small peices and dry it in the oven with just the light on. It will not smell or be messy, but dogs still love it. If you keep this up making you happy will become the most important thing in her life, and very usefull when the harder stuff comes later.

[beau6hunter]

gwp thank you so very much this is something i have read before and still use it for potty, so she goes on command, so to speak  . . lol i will employ this method