Please kill all the Turkeys

[Bluemoon]

Have any of the Pheasant hunters here noticed where the Turkeys move in the Pheasant disappear.  Places I have hunted for years where you could move 100 Pheasant a day are now void of any but Turkeys everywhere.  One hunt last year out of Dayton I quit counting at 24 points on Turkeys.  We did not put up one Pheasant.   To bad it is not legal to hunt them with dogs in Washington like it is in Montana.   So please on behalf of my dogs kill them all.

[phishisgroovin]

please private message me directions and lokidog & I will go try.

[piledup]

Gps coordinates would be fine. 

[Bluemoon]

Think Whiskey Creek

[phishisgroovin]

great, now all the teanaway hunters will be in whiskey creek this weekend and us without cheveron fuel cards will be alone in teanaway. 

[BOWHUNTER45]

Well I call BS on this one ..yeah we have more turkeys than pheasants but There is no way your going to tell it is because of turkeys ... So your telling me the turkeys are taking over the cover of the pheasants or are they eating miles of wheat fields...

[lokidog]

please private message me directions and lokidog & I will go try.

    

[jackmaster]

i have wonderd the same thing when it came to grouse and pheasant on the west side except it isnt turkeys its the damn possums, grouse and pheasant nest on the ground, well along comes MR possum and yum yum no more eggs and a pissed of mama, i think the state needs to put a bounty on them like they do for sqauw fish. if i hunted turkeys i would definatly head over and kill a couple for ya

[Bluemoon]

I am not a biologist nor claim to be.  All I know is where I used to shoot a lot pheasants there were never any turkeys.  Now that the turkeys have moved into the area the pheasants are not there anymore.  Call BS all you want I just stating the facts of this area.

[Machias]

Northern Missouri and southern Iowa have huge populations of both birds living in the same habitat, you'll need to look elsewhere for the culprit or reason why your pheasant numbers are down.  I would suggest it was in part to one of the worst hatches ever for quail and pheasants last spring.

[steen]

Years ago there used to be pheasants in the Custer area also.  That was when people were small time beef ranchers and raised their own oats and grains.  There was plenty for the pheasants to eat.  Now all that is gone and so are the pheasants, except the few you see survive the release sights or fly out of the release sights into private land.  Here the yoties and opossums take care of alot of those too.

[BOWHUNTER45]

Not being an A hole but I have fought hard to get turkeys in Washington and i just want to say this is the trouble we have had for 25 yrs in Washington is on what they eat and how it will effect the grouse population and the best one being the bios of Washington were worried about them eating frogs and snails .. turkeys do eat about everything ...Now let me clue you guys in alittle ... We had two chapters for the NWTF here on the westside ..Started in the 90,s Mine being one of them we raised lots of dollars for turkey restoration here in Washington finally convinced Washington to release a few on the westside .. We turned loose around 56 birds on the Pilchuck tree farm , pilchuck sold out to another company and now its off limits to hunting .. after all this hard work we got slapped in the face and lost 1000 s of dollars we put into it .. so basically everyone but the hunters are benefiting from this . this is why I  and they everett chapter quit .. I thank everyone whoever put there time into making Washington what it has become today... our last meeting a couple years ago was in Acme Wa. up north and the public shut us down again on making more plants in this area due to what they call crop damage .. Berry farmers ect ...So just to make it clear I have been involved on these issues for 20 yrs now and i will gladly brag that one up !!! Another thing the state of Washington is making millions off the wild turkey so please do not kill them all ....Make it clear I am not hear to p--- O-- people just get some respect .... peace !!!!

[BOWHUNTER45]

Steen  your correct and on the eastside skunks and coons eat alot of pheasnt eggs plus the habitat is not as good as it used to be !!!!! NOTHEN TO DO WITH TURKEYS !!  it is just because the turkeys took good hold to the area because of food and dryer springs !!!

[Wacenturion]

Not being an A hole but I have fought hard to get turkeys in Washington and i just want to say this is the trouble we have had for 25 yrs in Washington is on what they eat and how it will effect the grouse population and the best one being the bios of Washington were worried about them eating frogs and snails .. turkeys do eat about everything ...Now let me clue you guys in alittle ... We had two chapters for the NWTF here on the westside ..Started in the 90,s Mine being one of them we raised lots of dollars for turkey restoration here in Washington finally convinced Washington to release a few on the westside .. We turned loose around 56 birds on the Pilchuck tree farm , pilchuck sold out to another company and now its off limits to hunting .. after all this hard work we got slapped in the face and lost 1000 s of dollars we put into it .. so basically everyone but the hunters are benefiting from this . this is why I  and they everett chapter quit .. I thank everyone whoever put there time into making Washington what it has become today... our last meeting a couple years ago was in Acme Wa. up north and the public shut us down again on making more plants in this area due to what they call crop damage .. Berry farmers ect ...So just to make it clear I have been involved on these issues for 20 yrs now and i will gladly brag that one up !!! Another thing the state of Washington is making millions off the wild turkey so please do not kill them all ....Make it clear I am not hear to p--- O-- people just get some respect .... peace !!!!

That's a bit of a stretch......you convinced WDFW to  release birds on the west side....or perhaps Pillchuck or both?  There were at least 4 chapters in western Washington in the 90's...and the Everett Chapter came after Olympia, which was the first chapter along with Castle Rock and Vancouver if I recall.

Not trying to be negative, but you sound like a typical NWTF promoter of all things turkey that happened in Washington.  Just the opposite, turkey releases by WDFW stimulated the chapter system...fact.  If NWTF was the force behind all the releases and turkeys we have today, then why did it just stop?  Did the NWTF decide we had enough birds or some other reason?  No they were in fact an obstacle at times with their middle man mentality....to over simplify, all the NWTF did was pick our pockets and take all the credit.

That's not to say that volunteers like yourself didn't work hard to be a part of the overall effort the last few years in the 90's before everything came to a halt.  Unfortunately those same volunteers also got used.

As far as the statement.......

"our last meeting a couple years ago was in Acme Wa. up north and the public shut us down again on making more plants in this area due to what they call crop damage .. Berry farmers ect ..."

It was ill conceived from the start.  First the idiots in WDFW let NWTF bio's from back east sell Rio's as the obvious choice since they did so well in Oregon and California....like Acme is so like Roseburg.  Those nitwit NWTF bio's said WDFW was premature in putting Easterns out in western Washington...a mistake.  Bull puckley...they don't have a clue.

Rio's travel in large flocks and go where the easy food is...toward I-5 and the small organic farms.  Would have happened.  Easterns on the other hand would have disappeared like they do in other areas of western Washington...Pillchuck, Capitol Forest, Rose Valley..on and on.  They would have gone the other direction....to the woods...timber and the fringes.  No damage....none.

Those farmers had every right to question it and WDFW and NWTF could not answer the potential damage question.  Easterns would have been an easy sell....supply phone numbers of landowners where they exist...landowner telling landowner that no damage occurring.....done deal.

Add on the rush by local chapter up there to get anything released....even if wrong for the area.  Also ill conceived.  I for one am glad it got dumped, as it would have given turkeys a bad rap, because of poor decision making on the wrong subspecies.  Now nothing will get released up there.  You can blame the NWTF bio's and the local chapter for that....no one else.


Not to jack the thread, but needed to clarify things.

Oh...and turkeys are not the problem with pheasants. 

[Turkeyman]

  Hit the nail on the head again Wacenturion.

[Hilltop123]

Anyone that had any history with the Wilbur area will tell you, what killed off the pheasent was loss of cover. When farmer started farming clear to the pavement edge, and wiping out the fence rows??? Some of those fence rows has over 20 foot wide swaths of cover that went for miles, and that was both sides of the road. Loss of habitat, spraying and changes in ag. practices, not gobblers..............

[Wacenturion]

Anyone that had any history with the Wilbur area will tell you, what killed off the pheasent was loss of cover. When farmer started farming clear to the pavement edge, and wiping out the fence rows??? Some of those fence rows has over 20 foot wide swaths of cover that went for miles, and that was both sides of the road. Loss of habitat, spraying and changes in ag. practices, not gobblers..............

Ding...ding....we have a winner.  Right on!

[270Shooter]

I'd be happy to kill 2 of them for ya

[BOWHUNTER45]

Close but it was actually Olympia- Everett - North sound then the rest .. Yeah I always seem to screw up something but it has been a few years ... 

[BOWHUNTER45]

HEY for one this is why I gave up on this stuff because no one could come together and get things done ... most chapter presidents are going to tell you the same thing .. I never spent hours and hours years and years just running my mouth ..I did what I had to do to support the cause .. I also know what type of sub species of turkey to plant in our type of climate... Being from a state that has more turkeys than you can try to call in "
 like Pennsylvania ....I could go on all day !! like a few guys I know who planted turkeys one year and then the next year go there a shoot them and tell me they  just shot a bird that weighed 22 lbs and has a band on it .. whatever .. I dont run that way .. there is so many negitive issues relating to this subject that I need to just tuck my tail and go hide in the corner !!!!!!!!

[Wacenturion]

Close but it was actually Olympia- Everett - North sound then the rest .. Yeah I always seem to screw up something but it has been a few years ... 

Sorry...but wrong again.

[Wacenturion]

HEY for one this is why I gave up on this stuff because no one could come together and get things done ... most chapter presidents are going to tell you the same thing .. I never spent hours and hours years and years just running my mouth ..I did what I had to do to support the cause .. I also know what type of sub species of turkey to plant in our type of climate... Being from a state that has more turkeys than you can try to call in "
 like Pennsylvania ....I could go on all day !! like a few guys I know who planted turkeys one year and then the next year go there a shoot them and tell me they  just shot a bird that weighed 22 lbs and has a band on it .. whatever .. I dont run that way .. there is so many negitive issues relating to this subject that I need to just tuck my tail and go hide in the corner !!!!!!!!

No the reason you and others gave up on this is because it's a scam, and when one realizes they've been used, told they didn't do a good job and raise enough money for the cause in South Carolina, or whatever other demeaning statement NWTF staff can throw out there at you....people quit.  Plain and simple.  Kind of like dealing with an obnoxious used car salesman. 

As I said previously....turkey introductions done by WDFW, and not the NWTF, created the interest to give birth to the chapter system.  Years later when other powers to be at WDFW, who by the way never wanted turkeys, took control of the turkey program, it ceased, and with it the eventual slow death of the chapter system as we knew it set in.

Out of curiosity if you were involved in the Whatcom fiasco, did you support Rio's?  If you did...then you other statement relevant to appropriate subspecies is also inaccurate.     

[runamuk]

Anyone that had any history with the Wilbur area will tell you, what killed off the pheasent was loss of cover. When farmer started farming clear to the pavement edge, and wiping out the fence rows??? Some of those fence rows has over 20 foot wide swaths of cover that went for miles, and that was both sides of the road. Loss of habitat, spraying and changes in ag. practices, not gobblers..............

Ding...ding....we have a winner.  Right on!

pheasant are really reactive to cover I took some ground in Idaho and in my fencing and planning created escapement for the pheasants and in less than 3 years we had probably tripled our population just on our 10 acre property and the surrounding 100 acres also saw an increase.... habitat is where its at   I dont know much about turkeys other than they are odd birds and kinda freak me out 

[Bluemoon]

Bowhunter and others.  My intention was not to stirr up bad memories it was to have a little fun now that the spring season is underway.  I do not hunt Turkeys in this state for the main reason I can't use my dogs.  It is a thrill to have your dog on point, walk into flush a pheasant and have a gobbler get up at your feet.  Or watching my Springer quartering back and forth watching the grass wiggling in front and have 20 turkeys explode in front of him.  That is what turns me on...
The area I originally was talking about I still believe the turkeys ran the pheasants out of.  It is a very unique piece of property with trees, cover, feed and water all told about 200 acres or so.  You can't even find a hen pheasant in there now if you tried.  Drive a mile down the road and you will find both coexisting. 
I grew up in Eastern Washington and have hunted all parts of it for the past 40 years, so I think I am qualified to say I have seen the changes of wildlife and habitat.  I can appreciate yours and everyone Else's passion for the outdoors  and the programs we have all worked hard on just to watch this Fish and Wildlife Dept. flush it all away. 

Regards

[BOWHUNTER45]

DUDE dont worry about it .. I have been in a bad mood lately and have been going off about everything ..proberly have less friends now but i speak my mind ...Sorry if I stirred up some BS ... I need to start calming my butt down .... I need to just comment on the positive notes and I will for now on !!! PEACE EVERYONE !!!  and for the record the Whatcom clan was at once part of north sound until the NWTF had an Idea to have another chapter north of me .. so I hear you on that part and they were the ones wanting Rio 's just because they thought they deserved something for the hard work they put into it in 1 or 2 yrs .. I battled with the Wdfw BIO for at least 6 yrs to get something done but they said no way in Skagit co so thats how it got started wanting to go to whatcom co.  and NO I did not want Rio's ... I would hope anyone with knowledge knows the eastern is the tougher bird... Now we done with this one .... peace and go kill a turkey because I am ... hopefully !!!! 

[Curly]

I've sometimes wondered about grouse and turkeys coexisting. 

Interesting article on Turkeys competing with grouse:

http://www.consulting-foresters.com/?id=turkeys_ruffed_grouse

another:  http://www.esf.edu/communications/news/2002/12.12.birdrivalry.pdf

[jbeaumont21]

I have heard some reports of turkeys eating pheasant chicks and even being very territorial with other upland birds when it comes to feeding grounds.  On the other hand it has been rumored that pheasants are carriers for the black head disease which turkey chicks are suspected of being vulnerable to whereas other upland birds are not.  Just what I have heard so don't shoot the messanger.

[BOWHUNTER45]

turkeys eat a variety of things .. this is the problems we had way back when about snails frogs and on and on ... the whole pheasant thing is throwing me off... pheasants do not usually live in the woods  but maybe in the southeast corner the RIOS tend to use alot of the same open areas but I need more evidence to blame in on the turkeys ..HOW ABOUT PESTICIDES LACK OF COVER AND BIRDS OF PREY ....

[Phantom Gobbler]

There are areas where we hunt in NE WA where the number of pheasants and turkeys are both at very good numbers.  In the SE (as in many areas) there are probably a number of reasons that have resulted in plummeting pheasant numbers.  Habitat loss/changes, predators, high tech and efficient farming practices, lack of support/funding from WDFW etc. etc.  In general, the wild upland bird populations in Eastern Washington are greatly diminished from when I grew up hunting pheasants and other species of upland birds in the 70's. Limits of roosters used to be the rule rather than the exception.  We can turn this trend around, but we need to start by getting the sportsmen and women on the same page and start lobbying agressively for our tax payer rights. 

[Wacenturion]

There are areas where we hunt in NE WA where the number of pheasants and turkeys are both at very good numbers.  In the SE (as in many areas) there are probably a number of reasons that have resulted in plummeting pheasant numbers.  Habitat loss/changes, predators, high tech and efficient farming practices, lack of support/funding from WDFW etc. etc.  In general, the wild upland bird populations in Eastern Washington are greatly diminished from when I grew up hunting pheasants and other species of upland birds in the 70's. Limits of roosters used to be the rule rather than the exception.  We can turn this trend around, but we need to start by getting the sportsmen and women on the same page and start lobbying agressively for our tax payer rights. 

You are pretty much right on.....habitat loss and failure to account for it is the main reason.  That in itself amplifies all the other issues such as predation, weather etc.  It pretty simple to actually fix in principal, but requires hands on efforts, something the current staff at WDFW is lacking in.  They tend to be go to meeting, act important, make excuses for why they can't do anything types. 

Fact is in the 90's there was an active new program that dealt with hunter access and habitat restoration statewide.  There were 23 staff with equipment (tractors, trailers etc.) that in the program's short history did incredible things.  One being turkey releases and trap and transfer.  In addition over 1300 landowners statewide were signed to cooperative agreements providing just over 3 million private acres available under different types of access programs.  Much more was accomplished, but it would take several paragraphs to describe it.

When reorganization occurred in 1999 under the previous Director....wildlife management took over control of that program.  They quickly destroyed it eliminating positions and having remaining position do other things taking away some if not a lot of their ability to service landowner agreements.  When I hear Wildlife Management tell us the new application process will provide revenue to add private lands access I cringe...what a freaking joke.

Before we got millions of acres basically for free or for the cost of improving habitat on said lands.  Now we are going to pay a select small group at the expense of pissing off the landowners that did it for nothing.  Oh yeah that's certainly a way to increase acreages.  For every one we pay, we'll loose several.

Pretty damn sad...........that agency needs a giant flush so it can get back to basics.