License Fee's Increase Sept 1

[lokidog]

OK, Bob, so they are about the same rate as inflation....  How about the decrease in opportunity?  What about fishing licenses and all the new cards and stamps? 

[Bob33]

Lokidog, I'm not necessarily defending the increases.  Just showing the data.

I don't know much about the fishing.  Maybe they've increased more?

[BOWHUNTER45]

NO SENSE in getting pissy with each other ,we just need to find ways to control the issues .....It is obvious once prices go up THEY WILL NOT BE GOING DOWN .....Just like gas , there is no way we will ever see gas for $ 1.50 per gal. again .....

[lokidog]

I did not mean to sound pissy towards Bob.  I always appreciate info.  In fact, I don't have as much of a problem with the hunting fee increases as fishing increases.  The biggest thing is that they raise the costs and reduce the opportunities  by leaps and bounds.  I paid for four sets of fishing licenses last year and we caught all of about four fish (oops, just remembered the kids' are free, for now).  Granted some of that was due to lack of effort, but much was due to lack of opportunity, especially the rockfish here in PS. 

And now, this year, six days of shrimping (including several days on huge tidal changes), again no rockfish, attemps to close salmon fishing/access off on San Juan Island west side, size limits for diver (how DO you measure one before whacking it?), etc.

[dreamingbig]

I am not surprised by the increase.  I don't think they are trying to price the average Joe out of the game but they have had their budgets slashed and are trying to save their jobs.  We would probably be doing the same if we were in their shoes.

However, (big however) they need to be held accountable for the decisions they are making and that is where we need to band together and voice our dissent.  They need to reallocate resources to the right areas (enforcement, population surveys, biologists) and trim the fat.

[Bob33]

I think if prices increase at the rate of inflation, then it's probably reasonable to expect an equivalent level of service: not necessarily more or less.  When prices increase and there is an expectation of better service, that's where the disappointment and irritation begins.

In 2010 the special hunt permit process changed significantly and it was promised that the additional fees would be used to purchase land to open up more hunting opportunity.  What lands have been purchased so far?  What additional hunting opportunities are available now? 

[dreamingbig]

I agree.  They need to fulfill their promise of more opportunity.  However, with wolves on their mind, they might be struggling to allow more harvest.  Oh, wait... that would be a logical argument.  Does logic compute with them?

[sakoshooter]

Increases are upsetting to me too, but we are still in line with most other states. Most states have had increases in the last 2 years. 

In line with most other states?  I don't think so.  In line with other western states, maybe.  But compared to my native Pennsylvania, we are a rip-off.

Here's a line from the PA Game Commission's website concerning current license fees:
Resident Adult Hunting (age17 - 64) $20.70

This $20.70 includes regular (rifle) season deer hunting, all small game hunting, turkey hunting, coyote hunting, varmint hunting (woodchucks, crows, etc), and waterfowl hunting (of course, you also need the duck stamp for waterfowl).

You cant compare Washington with east coast states or states with lower income levels. Thats like saying Washington's licenses are more expensive then W Virginia, well duh! Fee's are based on income levels, even citation fines are based on income level. For example a federal citation for underage drinking in W Virginia is $50, in E. WA it is $275, S. Cali it is $375.

Big Tex, I disagree with fees being based on the economy. In my opinion, they're based on what we 'allow' them to get away with. Standard license costs are high for residents compared to other Rocky Mt states plus we pay constantly for all the special drawings, raffles and other opportunities.
In the midwest, people would flood to the town hall meetings to complain about an increase in license cost etc. Out here, we just pay it and say thanx.

[bobcat]

The only fee that I've seen that seems to have gone up significantly, is the goat, sheep, and moose tags, which went from $100 to $300. And honestly, I can't argue with those increases as I feel a once in a lifetime tag for any of those three species is well worth the $300.

Of course, as Bob33 said, we had one of the biggest increases last year when they created all the additional (and mostly unnecessary) special hunt categories). I'm curiously awaiting an announcement from the WDFW as to where exactly all that money was spent. (as they said it was to go for providing additional access to hunters on private lands)

[dscubame]

An increase to be relative needs to be expressed as a percent (%) not a dollar amount.  I find some of these increases to be on the high side.  The three OIL tags are just once in a lifetime so no big deal to me and I am actually surprised they are not much higher. 

[Little Dave]

Comparing Pennsylvania cost of living to Washington:

To support a budget of $100K in Spokane, you will need $97K in Pittsburgh.
To support a budget of $100K in Seattle, you will need $104K in Philadelphia.

For West Virginia:
To support a budget of $100K in Yakima, you will need $97K in Charleston.

Cost of living in Philadelphia is HIGHER than it is in Seattle.  Generally, cost of living in Pennsylvania is very similar to cost of living in Washington.  Federal fines are more likely a reflection of political clout than demographics.  West Virginia had eight term Senator Robert Byrd, we have Murray and Cantwell who seem more likely to use their position to raise penalties on their constituents as a good thing, Feinstein and Boxer in California... you get the idea.

The most probable reason why hunting licenses cost less in Pennsylvania is that there are more hunters there per capita.  Enough hunters to fund game management through the sale of cheaper hunting licenses.

[Special T]

I think Lic cost less in Pen because they only manage game animals with their wildlife $$$ we have a dwindling number of hunters in this state, and they spend more money on less games animals. We might have trust in individuals from the WDFW, but the accountability of the whole Dept is lacking.

[180-GRAIN]

Maybe the increase will scare a few out of staters away from applying for oil tags!

[Wacenturion]

Comparing Pennsylvania cost of living to Washington:

To support a budget of $100K in Spokane, you will need $97K in Pittsburgh.
To support a budget of $100K in Seattle, you will need $104K in Philadelphia.

For West Virginia:
To support a budget of $100K in Yakima, you will need $97K in Charleston.

Cost of living in Philadelphia is HIGHER than it is in Seattle.  Generally, cost of living in Pennsylvania is very similar to cost of living in Washington.  Federal fines are more likely a reflection of political clout than demographics.  West Virginia had eight term Senator Robert Byrd, we have Murray and Cantwell who seem more likely to use their position to raise penalties on their constituents as a good thing, Feinstein and Boxer in California... you get the idea.

The most probable reason why hunting licenses cost less in Pennsylvania is that there are more hunters there per capita.  Enough hunters to fund game management through the sale of cheaper hunting licenses.

Your last statement says it all.  That's what we had prior to Resource Allocation...a lot more hunters.  With all the reduction of opportunity brought on starting in the 80's and evolving into "we want to be like Utah, Nevada and every other western state", we have decreased our hunting participation and numbers by probably two thirds.

Course many buy into the less hunters is better due to less pressure argument which is baloney.  You can generally still only take one animal (unless now 2nd tag) and only have so much time one can take off.  It was self limiting before Resource Allocation and still would be. 

So in summary we have created our own mess.  More regulations, higher fees, resulting in less opportunity, has put us where we are at.  You want to have good revenue coming in.....put your house in order.  If WDFW chooses to own all the land it does  as well as over 600 access sites statewide for boat launches etc, and brag about it....then *censored* take care of them.  Make them showcases so that when your users show up they say WOW!  That way if WDFW has to raise fees periodically, people will readily support it.  Unlike now where increases mean same or less.

Get rid of the waste.  Prioritize programs that do something for both the resource and the public.  A lot in the agency is about the "sky might fall", therefore we must have all these positions to make sure it doesn't.  What a crock.  There is so much waste and inefficiency in WDFW it is shameful.

This will really hit home when you all figure out that after drawing your usual tags as you have done in the past, it will take forever to draw again.  All you have to do is look at the average points for an individual permit.  My favorite hunt went from 100 tags with 600 applicants in the 90's with one choice to 2200 applicants for those tags with four choices, up until last year, where it again increased to approximately 2600 due to doe hunters putting in because they don't have to worry about losing their anterless points. 

What the hell was wrong with ONE choice deer, elk or otherwise.  Everyone with the exception of areas back then like the Watershed drew every 3-4 years.  Now if you draw, you'll skip a decade or more.  What a mess these idiots in WDFW have created.   

[Lunatic Fringe]

This whole thread should be a letter to the editor or the Governor herself!!!!  Their financial mismanagement is killing this state!  VOTE THEM ALL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!