Picture Proof - Wolves chasing Elk

[BOWHUNTER45]

I am a little lost here... first he says he hates road hunters , then he explaines how he snuck on private land and killed a deer and third your in the military ... Dude I think you need to find a hole and jump in it !!!! 

[Special T]

I just wanted to point out a couple of things about new member to this site. Most are creepers that just look for a period of time before joining to post. Most  show up out of thin air and start off getting everyone fired up. We do have some members than hold different views than ourselves. The difference is they present arguments and have not been a flash in the pan. The example that come to mind for me is WaCoyotehunter. Regardless of whether you agree with him he engages opposing ideas and finds arguments to back them up... I enjoy reading what he has to say and enjoy  with him an certain topics. I agree with BP assessment of our new member. We normally bombard someone who shows up ill prepared with facts. Getting in a shouting match on the board does little to elevate our cause... Crushing the ill prepared martyr with the weight of the facts tends to put hem in their place and helps educate those who  actually do care about our hunting heritage. 

[BOWHUNTER45]

HAHAHAHA yeah sounds like me ... But I have gotten alot better at it now !!!! 

[Killmore]

Bearpaw,,KUDOS to you!!!  I think you have more knowledge then most...  Thank you!!

[bearpaw]

 
I don't think the guy is even a hunter, after all his high and mighty talk of being such an ethical thinking hunter, he talks about trespassing and getting away with it by using his military ID.

Because I said we drive around the ranches he seems to think that's the only way I hunt. He can not vision that some hunters may hunt many different ways. Another reason I don't think he is a hunter.

Anyone who has hunted much has learned to hunt many different ways and probably wouldn't try to stir the pot as this guy has, I still say he is just a wolf lover that thinks he knows how nature works. 

Wolf mod, you can speculate what you want about what wolves eat during other months, but the science says wolves eat 1.4 elk per month. Your wolf groups have pushed the wolf issue to far, you have alienated vast numbers of people against wolves and now it is all backfiring. Wolves are going to managed more heavily in Idaho than if you would have backed off a few years ago when the target was met. You lose.... 

Why don't you step up and admit you aren't a hunter or show us some proof you do hunt? Then if you are a hunter, I would like an explanation of why you think it is OK to trespass on private property.

I agree Specail T, WaCoyote has a little different views on wolves than I do, but we agree on many other things. We get along just fine and I greatly respect his opinion. There are others on the forum who want wolves in this state and they are entitled to their opinion as much as myself or anyone else, but they don't throw a bunch of insults at 90% of the hunters as this guy has done and then turn around and brag about trespassing and using military ID to get off.

[bearpaw]

Truth be known, I wouldn't even mind if we had a few wolves. I have seen their tracks in NE Washington off and on for years but just kept my mouth shut about it. My only real worry was that the government would find out and want to close down the area or something like that.

But after watching the fiasco in Idaho, I am opposed to any more wolves anywhere because I can see exactly what the wolf groups plan is for Washington and the whole country. The wolf groups are creating the anti-wolf movement with their poor judgement.

[luvtohnt]

Wolf mod, you can speculate what you want about what wolves eat during other months, but the science says wolves eat 1.4 elk per month. Your wolf groups have pushed the wolf issue to far, you have alienated vast numbers of people against wolves and now it is all backfiring. Wolves are going to managed more heavily in Idaho than if you would have backed off a few years ago when the target was met. You lose.... 

That figure comes from Yellowstone and is only in the winter months when wolves are in large packs and easy to locate. There have been no real studies of predation in the summer because the wolves break up into small packs and are nearly impossible to locate within the park. There is speculation that the harvest numbers drop drastically in the non-snow months, because the elk are healthier and able to fend off the smaller packs. This comes directly from the book Decade of The Wolf written by Douglas Smith the leader of the wolf project in Yellowstone. Something I think a lot of you guys on here would enjoy reading.

Brandon

[mulehunter]

Well said Bearpaw!!!!


WOLFMOD.   



Mulehunter. 

[bearpaw]

I would never ban a guy for having a different opinion. But I will challenge or debate the comments he has made. 

[bearpaw]

Wolf mod, you can speculate what you want about what wolves eat during other months, but the science says wolves eat 1.4 elk per month. Your wolf groups have pushed the wolf issue to far, you have alienated vast numbers of people against wolves and now it is all backfiring. Wolves are going to managed more heavily in Idaho than if you would have backed off a few years ago when the target was met. You lose.... 

That figure comes from Yellowstone and is only in the winter months when wolves are in large packs and easy to locate. There have been no real studies of predation in the summer because the wolves break up into small packs and are nearly impossible to locate within the park. There is speculation that the harvest numbers drop drastically in the non-snow months, because the elk are healthier and able to fend off the smaller packs. This comes directly from the book Decade of The Wolf written by Douglas Smith the leader of the wolf project in Yellowstone. Something I think a lot of you guys on here would enjoy reading.

Brandon

I appreciate your comment Brandon but "speculation" is exactly that, speculation. I see no proof to substantiate your claim that 1.4 elk being eaten only occurs in the winter months.

I would be willing to "speculate" that the number incresases in the summer to 3 or 4+ elk per month after the calvs are born! 

I would be willing to "speculate" that the elk in the Lolo zone would substantiate how many elk wolves eat if they could talk.

Until another study shows that wolves do not eat 1.4 elk per month, that seems to be "the best available science". That is the proper and politically correct term I might add. Fact, it's really unknown if wolves eat less elk or very likely more elk per month in other times of the year.   

[WAcoyotehunter]

Like wolfmod, I hate to see the ignorant SSS and "our forefathers killed them with good reason" arguments.  I'm a minority on this site because I actually enjoy having some wolves around.  I hear them while elk hunting or horseback riding up here in Pend Oreille County and I appreciate how lucky I am to live and recreate in a 'wild' place.  I also like seeing lions, bears, grizzly tracks, and hearing reports of caribou, lynx, wolverine...in Washington.  I think we can support managed populations of all those species and can have wonderful deer/elk hunting opportunities along with huntable populations of predators.
When I push for habitat restoration and protection I don't mean planting a few trees or pulling weeds when you see them.  We need to think bigger- like responsible timber harvest techniques, broad weed control plans, increased fire presence in the forest... those bigger picture habitat changes are necessary if we want to support robust populations of deer/elk and maintain a viable wolf population (and let's face it (like it or not) wolves are going to be a part of the landscape in Washington for a while).
Little Dave- you mention the economics behind hunting/birding/wildlife.  I agree that the inflated numbers that our state feeds us about how big of an industry wildlife viewing is garbage.  My guess is that they have a lousy survey model and ask lame questions that they can predict the answer to.  I don't expect hunters to cough up money to their local weed board or forest service office, but a letter, visit, or phone call to people that make decisions about management objectives and outcomes might be a good start.  I also suggest joining groups that focus on habitat protection/restoration.  RMEF, DU, BHA, NEWFC are some that I am a part of and that I think are interested in protecting hunting and habitat requirements for wildlife.
 

[BOWHUNTER45]

WOW .. You guys nailed it .....YELLOW STONE has sparked a disaster !!!!!

[bearpaw]

I think logging is our friend, since it was curtailed in many areas the game populations have declined. Granted it helps when done properly, but logging is our friend.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I think logging is our friend, since it was curtailed in many areas the game populations have declined. Granted it helps when done properly, but logging is our friend.

I agree that logging produces outstanding browse and cover, but I would like to see a lot more responsible practices.  Like: seeding an area after the job is done to prevent massive weed infestations and erosion, restoring unnessasary roads, cleaning up some of the suspended logs and fuel left over after a cut, and leaving enough trees that keep the next big wind from blowing everything down.
 
We need logging and wood products, but we need to do things right too.

[jackmaster]

coyotehunter, timber companies are the best at replenishing the forests often they plant back 2 to 3 trees per tree taken, and alot of them are hybrid fir, maybe the clearcuts you have seen that were overgrown with brush just havent been planted back yet, the brush that infestates a clearcut before planting back actually protects the seedlings and in the future when the the trees are of size they are thinned back and cause the brush to die off which creates nutrients and better soils. now back to the wolves, i wouldnt mind listening to a couple wolves howling in the night but i would rather hear it in alaska or canada, i just believe that washington isnt ready or responsible enough to manage wolves, and i believe that with all of my heart and i fear that are elk, deer oh and poor ole hounds that are dying on the job  will pay thee ultimate price, sorry about the hound part but it just irritates me to no end how wolfmod guy feels about hounds, i just cant let it go, when i had my hounds i treated them better than i treated most humans....