Permits...single or group hunt?

[Cougeyes]

Thoughts on this....I have 13 points dad has 12 for deer, we'll probably have 12 due to the average of the two and I dont see them rounding to the higher number 13.....is it worth it to put in as partners ? I know if it comes down to the last permit being drawn and I or my dad were selected we wouldn't get it since there is 1 tag for 2 hunters. That, and him having one less point are the reasons i can see why I shouldn't do a group hunt.  Are there other reasons why I should select one over the other?

[elkslayer069]

My dad has one less elk permit than i do and i put in partners with him. If i draw one he'll draw one, i dont want it any other way. Ill wait an extra year to draw my tag as long i get to share the hunt with popps.

[DoubleJ]

So, as a group, if one gets the tag, everyone gets the tag?  4 person group, 1 tag for 4 people or 4 tags?

[elkslayer069]

Yes if one person in the group draws the permit then everybody in the group draws the permit.

[HenrySeattle2002]

So, as a group, if one gets the tag, everyone gets the tag?  4 person group, 1 tag for 4 people or 4 tags?

The only caveat to that is...if say you have a group of 5, and they give out 10 permits...if they've already drawn 6 permits (with 4 remaining) and your number comes up.  You get passed over.  So you limit your chances even more when you submit as a group.

[Hunterman]

Yes if one person in the group draws the permit then everybody in the group draws the permit.

WRONG...If there is only one tag is left and member of a GROUP draws it,,the tag goes to the next SINGLE draw name..The game folks are not going to incress the permit just because a group member is drawn..
 
Hunterman(Tony)

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

They round up. SO if yo have 13 and he has 12 you would have 13 together.
 

[elkslayer069]

Sorry i didnt go into the details, hunterman is correct.

[Bob33]

They round up. SO if yo have 13 and he has 12 you would have 13 together.

Not quite.  The average is rounded to the nearest whole number:

"If the first member has one point, the second member has two, and a third member has four, then two points are used in the drawing for that application. The averaged points are rounded to the nearest whole number. "

[Ridgerunner]

so if a group has a .5, i.e 9 points between them averaqges to 4.5 do they go in with  4 or 5 points?

[Bob33]

so if a group has a .5, i.e 9 points between them averaqges to 4.5 do they go in with  4 or 5 points?

The question of rounding .5 up or down is not specifically answered by WDFW but by standard math convention .5 rounds up, so 4.5 should be considered 5.

[bobcat]

If the group is drawn, then yes, everyone in the group gets a permit, but of course (as others have said) only if there are enough permits left for that hunt. If you're going to apply as a group, my recommendation would be to apply for hunts that have a relatively high number of permits. If there are only, say, 5 permits, you are really hurting your chances if you apply as a group. If the numbers are more up around 30 or 40, then I don't think it matters so much.

If you really want to draw a permit, you're better off applying separately, but only if you are willing to hunt alone, or if you know your partner is able to go along to help, even if he isn't able to hunt for himself.

Personally, this year, due to gas prices and a lack of money to spend, I am not going to apply for anything separately, because I want a partner to split the expenses with. Well, with the exception of moose. For a moose hunt I don't mind racking up the credit card.

[Ridgerunner]

Well, with the exception of moose. For a moose hunt I don't mind racking up the credit card.

Its worth it.  Sheep and goat too I would think.

[bobcat]

Well, with the exception of moose. For a moose hunt I don't mind racking up the credit card.

Its worth it.  Sheep and goat too I would think.

Yeah, sheep too, but I don't apply for mountain goat. I think I could do a sheep hunt by myself if I had to. But moose I definitely would not want to be by myself.

[Bob33]

I suspect anyone who drews an OIL tag would have little trouble finding a partner to go along to help. 

[link]

My buddy and I have been putting in as partners for a few years now. I put in as our group leader, pick our hunts and give him the id number and he puts in. A couple years ago, he procrastinated and ended up not applying in time. My question is, if I put in as a group leader, am I labeled a group even if only one person applied. Could I have been screwed out of a tag if our number came up with one tag left, it showed we were a group, and they moved on? 

[Bob33]

Could I have been screwed out of a tag if our number came up with one tag left, it showed we were a group, and they moved on? 

Not if your group was one.

[bobcat]

It shouldn't make a difference if you submitted your application as a group leader, and ended up being the only person in the "group". Either way, when your number comes up, your first choice is looked at, and if there are permits left, the number of people in your group has to be compared to that number to see if there are enough permits for the group. So either way they (the computer) is going to look at how many are in the group. In this scenario you are only a "group" of one, so it's no different than if you had submitted your application as an individual.

Geez, I just think I made that sound much more complicated than it is!

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

Yeah, Bob i wasn't to clear on the rounding. I guess i am always used to the rounding up issue. I have 1 less point than my brother in law and we always put in as partners so it is always rounded up in our case.
 
But you are correct it is rounded to the nearest whole number.

[fair-chase]

It shouldn't make a difference if you submitted your application as a group leader, and ended up being the only person in the "group". Either way, when your number comes up, your first choice is looked at, and if there are permits left, the number of people in your group has to be compared to that number to see if there are enough permits for the group. So either way they (the computer) is going to look at how many are in the group. In this scenario you are only a "group" of one, so it's no different than if you had submitted your application as an individual.

Geez, I just think I made that sound much more complicated than it is!

I would hope that is the case. It could also be possible that the application is just floating in space due to it not being completed yet. I.E. you applied as a group leader but the rest of your group that you listed did not complet the process and was therefore it was not fully submitted. I think you would have to contact WDFW, or better yet the company contracted to run the drawing to get a real answer. You might also look at your points on WDFW website and see what it says about the status of that draw. I have one from 1998 I believe that still says "draw not run yet" not really sure what that's all about but could be the same scenario.

[trophyhunt]

Thoughts on this....I have 13 points dad has 12 for deer, we'll probably have 12 due to the average of the two and I dont see them rounding to the higher number 13.....is it worth it to put in as partners ? I know if it comes down to the last permit being drawn and I or my dad were selected we wouldn't get it since there is 1 tag for 2 hunters. That, and him having one less point are the reasons i can see why I shouldn't do a group hunt.  Are there other reasons why I should select one over the other?

You should put in with your dad in my opinon, think of the memories you'll have with a special hunt with you dad.  The points you both have give you guys a great chance at drawing.  Good luck

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

The way I understand it is that when you and others apply as a group, you all are on one group application, all your names on one tag and the number of permits multiplied by your average points. So your group tag has to get drawn. You are not all individuals and if one gets drawn all get drawn.  That's what I have been told when I asked this same question awhile ago. Is this wrong?

Hunt with your dad, it will be much better if you are both carrying the same tags.

[bobcat]

The way I understand it is that when you and others apply as a group, you all are on one group application, all your names on one tag and the number of permits multiplied by your average points. So your group tag has to get drawn. You are not all individuals and if or gets drawn all get drawn.  That's what I have been told when I asked this same question awhile ago. Is this wrong?

No, that's how it is.

[Cougeyes]

Thanks for the info, I learned quite a bit, I figured they wouldn't round up, just a way to screw ya over I guess.  So that answers my question I will be putting in as a group since our points will average to 13 which is what i'd be sitting with as an individual anyway. 

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

The only thing is that there is a better chance of one
Of you getting a tag if you go individual. And who wouldn't tag along to
Help the old man out ; )

[trophyhunt]

 

Thanks for the info, I learned quite a bit, I figured they wouldn't round up, just a way to screw ya over I guess.  So that answers my question I will be putting in as a group since our points will average to 13 which is what i'd be sitting with as an individual anyway.

:yeah:exactly, good choice and best of luck in the draw.

[huntindork]

I dont know if i would assume it rounds to 13pts.  Your average with your dad is 12.5 Pts.  If you look at Oregon regs it doesnt round up unless you have 12.51 Pts.  If you have 12.5 it rounds down.  I know this isnt Oregon but they may treat it the same.

Either way I think I would apply by myself and take him with you or visa versa.  That way you can possibly go on two great hunts together in the next couple years. IF you both happen to get drawn the same year in the same area that would just be a bonus.

[Bob33]

The only thing is that there is a better chance of one
Of you getting a tag if you go individual. And who wouldn't tag along to
Help the old man out ; )

Go solo. That way there are two names in the hat, and you don't have to worry about getting a group application drawn without enough tags to go around.  My friends and I do that: we love to go with our buddies that draw to help them out even if we can't hunt. 

[Todd_ID]

The only thing is that there is a better chance of one
Of you getting a tag if you go individual. And who wouldn't tag along to
Help the old man out ; )

Go solo. That way there are two names in the hat, and you don't have to worry about getting a group application drawn without enough tags to go around.  My friends and I do that: we love to go with our buddies that draw to help them out even if we can't hunt.

With a group of 2 there are 2 names in the hat with 13 points each (assuming they round up in this instance).  If either name is drawn, then the name is checked to see if it's a solo or group application.  If it's a group, then the number of tags left remaining is checked against the number in the group.  As long as there are enough tags remaining, then both hunters get a tag and both points accumulated reset to 0.

I say try to hunt with your Dad.  I can't begin to think of all the hunts I have missed my Dad on since he passed.

[Bob33]

Todd, that's not the way it works.  With a group there is only one name in the hat.

[Todd_ID]

Todd, that's not the way it works.  With a group there is only one name in the hat.

OK, sorry for the mis-information.  That was just the way I understood it.

[steen]

If you want a memory with you Dad then go together it will be 12 points.  My husband and I almost always put in separate so that if we draw we both go but can concentrate on the one trophy but I did put in with my sister as a group then my husband and maybe her's can go also and enjoy hunting camp also.  One time hunts we put in separate (Sheep, Moose, goat,)for sure cause that way we get to do it twice even if we shoot only one time.  For cow permit we draw separate so we don't draw together and hopefully it puts us up for extra chances for meat in the freezer and not in the same year, cows, bulls both fill the freezer regardless of trophy or not.  We are hoping for him to draw a cow tag with his 8 points and I only have 2 so we go separate and hopefully one will draw.  I'm hungry for elk steaks and burger again.  Cow moose would be awesome!!!!!!  good luck!

[fremont]

I always put in as group leader for our gang of 4.  It's frustrating at times.     Last year, after several prompts, one of the others forgot to submit.  So, now his lower point total drags us all down in subsequent years.  But, we want to hunt together, and we'll wait for a draw to make it a rare, fun trip.