Permit vs General, East vs Westside

[asl20bball]

It is my understanding that when submitting a special permit for elk you first have to buy your tag AND declare East or Westside. Am I S.O.L. if I want to apply for a special permit Eastside but if not drawn hunt Westside? Is this correct and if so why do they make u declair so early when there's plenty of time between drawing results and begining of the general season.

[Bob33]

Am I S.O.L. if I want to apply for a special permit Eastside but if not drawn hunt Westside?

Yes.  Once you apply you cannot change.

[asl20bball]

That sucks. They need to allow you to purchase a elk license at the time of the speical permit then later declare east/west unless u get drawn....I will be filing a suggestion/complaint to WDFW

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

They make you choose because the west side would be flooded by people, not like it isn't already. But it prevents everybody from applying for eastern big bull and then hunting west side if you don't hunt... Look at it as risk Vs. reward. If you want to take a chance to hunt big bulls you might get stuck hunting little bulls...

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

asl complain all you want. that issue will not change...
 
I like it the way it is, although i would love to apply for a eastern bull permit with my points but i don't wanna hunt spikes.

[asl20bball]

Good point...guess I'll just have to wait until I have more points accumulated they take the risk. West side for now.

[bobcat]

asl complain all you want. that issue will not change...
 
I like it the way it is, although i would love to apply for a eastern bull permit with my points but i don't wanna hunt spikes.

   They've already heard from plenty of people who don't like that they can't apply for eastside permits, and then when not drawn, hunt the westside general season. But it's that way for a reason, and I think most people agree with it and like it the way it is. They COULD make the general season spike only on the westside too like they tried to a few years ago.

[pips4bucks]

I made a phone call to the WDFW a couple of years ago about this very topic. I was told that you could apply for an east side permit and if you didn't get drawn, go swap tags for the west side, as long as you did it before the seasons began.  I should probably confirm that again just in case. 

[bobcat]

I made a phone call to the WDFW a couple of years ago about this very topic. I was told that you could apply for an east side permit and if you didn't get drawn, go swap tags for the west side, as long as you did it before the seasons began.  I should probably confirm that again just in case. 

Whoever told you that told you wrong. That would be against their own rules on page 13 of the 2011 Big Game regulations. Look at the upper left side of the page, under "Refunds/Exchanges".

[B.G.hunter]

they did allow you to change one year i believe it was 2006 or something like that but then the change it the next year. i think the wdfw should split the eastside in to northeast and southeast because it is still terrible odds to draw a big bull tag over here. and the people who hunt northeast still hunt branch antler bulls OTC and can put in for colockum or blue mountains.

[wildmanoutdoors]

Say you hunt Archery and someday want a bull tag for the East side, but want points built up until you have say 12 or so before you applying. Cant you just put in for some WA tags to build points or just take point options with a WA tag. Then in a few years use them to start putting in for an EA special tag? I realize its still a gamble but you'd be hunting bulls on the West side while gaining points to hopefully draw a EA tag someday.

[grundy53]

Say you hunt Archery and someday want a bull tag for the East side, but want points built up until you have say 12 or so before you applying. Cant you just put in for some WA tags to build points or just take point options with a WA tag. Then in a few years use them to start putting in for an EA special tag? I realize its still a gamble but you'd be hunting bulls on the West side while gaining points to hopefully draw a EA tag someday.

Yes. You can do that.

[B.G.hunter]

you can apply for ghost points if that is your angle at the points system and you will not draw while hunting the westside. but even with 15 or 16 points the odds are still not in your favor to draw one of the premium eastside tags. when 600 people apply for 7 tags numbers are not in your favor.

[wildmanoutdoors]

Thanks guys. I just don't want to hunt spike or cows for the next 15 to 17 years.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Thanks guys. I just don't want to hunt spike or cows for the next 15 to 17 years.

then I guess you have 2 options, spend the next several years learning an Eastside "Any Elk" unit, such as 101, 105, 108, 121, 124, 127, 130, 133,
136, 139, 142, 372, 382, 388,203, 204, 209, 215, 218, 224, 231, 233,
239, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248,
250, 254, 260, 262, 266, 269, 272, 278,
284, 290, 373, 379, 381  seems to me there are a lot of options in Eastern WA if you dont want to hunt "just spikes..   
or hunt west-side.

[jackelope]

Thanks guys. I just don't want to hunt spike or cows for the next 15 to 17 years.

Geesh...you even live on the west side. You've got tons of opportunity to not hunt spikes and cows. Put in for ghost points till you have a bunch of points and hunt the west side. Hopefully I'm not giving away any secrets here but your elk points are universal...east side or west side.

[Bean Counter]

I really don't understand all the complaining. Most every other western state requires a drawing just to hunt elk in the first place. Certainly all the good ones do. 

[wildmanoutdoors]

Thanks guys. I just don't want to hunt spike or cows for the next 15 to 17 years.

Geesh...you even live on the west side. You've got tons of opportunity to not hunt spikes and cows. Put in for ghost points till you have a bunch of points and hunt the west side. Hopefully I'm not giving away any secrets here but your elk points are universal...east side or west side.

Yes, we have already established all this...
I'm gonna keep hunting the WA and build points to someday hopefully get a really good EA tag.
And I'm surely not complaining. Lol. Just want to make sure I'm clear on my own strategies.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

My point was, there is LOTS of opportunity to hunt EA, and harvest ANY ELK, or ANY BULL, in areas that produce some respectable bulls every year, and still apply for the "quality" permits, you don't have to "settle" for hunting WA and build points.
That has been 
Our point system is almost worthless.
it does not matter if you have 1 point, or 16 points, YOU WILL NOT GET DRAWN IF YOU ARE NOT APPLYING ! PERIOD !
It makes little to no sense to not apply for a permit you want, and hunt somewhere else, to "build points" when someone gets drawn every year with very few.
You might get lucky, but you will not if you don't try, every year that you don't apply for a permit you want, GUARRANTIES THAT YOU WILL NOT GET IT !!
Every year you "build points" is wasted, if you are not applying for the permit you want, because even if you have max points+10 does not guarantee anything.

[wildmanoutdoors]

STIKNSTRINGBOW,
Dont get me wrong. I do love to hunt the west side. I want to get a big Roosie, but someday I want a decent chance at say a Dayton tag or something. But I am going to look into your suggestion also. If I'm not on a special permit hunt Id like to keep my travel to about 3 hours or so either way.
I do hear what your are saying about not applying for it even though I have little points, and guaranteeing to never get drawn. But I still enjoy exploring new areas and am totally satisfied with the west side for now.
I haven't hunted Elk long enough to have that one spot Ill call my spot for the rest of my life like so many do. I love being out there with just a chance Ill get to see some Elk.
So looking at your suggestions, I really don't want to travel to the NE corner or the state. Even the 200 GMU's don't really appeal to me. Except maybe 249, 250, 247 or 243. Unless there in the woods like Bumping, Rimrock ect. Which I have hunted and loved, I'm not that interested.
I know 249 is my kind of place it looks like. but 243, 247 and 250 seem to be getting into more desert? Ill have to go on a mission for Morels in a month or so up that way and check em out I guess.
But I am interested in 388. I love the high country and love deep, dark timber areas.  This area could fit the bill?
Anyway, thanks for the insight. I just need to read a bit more and study my options now. Bit like I said, I love the west side too and found a great area last season in the Clearwater I really want to concentrate on for this season at least. But still get points building.

Thanks again!

[asl20bball]

To follow-up my original post, I contact the WDFW and here's their reply:

It is correct that you must select your area and weapon choice prior to
being able to submit for deer and elk.  Once you submit for a special
hunt, you are not able to exchange to a different area or weapon for the
general season.  This is based on a WAC presented by our legislature
(See Below)

220-55-040
Recreational license, tag, permit, and stamp refunds and exchanges.

     (a) The department will not refund any recreational license or
permit purchase for which a season or hunt has been scheduled, and the
licensee could have participated in the season or hunt, regardless of
whether the licensee did in fact participate or a permit could have been
used, regardless of whether the person used the permit.

     (b) The department will not refund purchases of raffle tickets,
special hunt permit applications or collector bird stamps

If you have any further questions or concerns, feel free to contact us
at 360-902-2464.

[Gumby98366]

Last year I purchased my elk tag for West, but months later the opportunity came up for private property access in the East.
On the day before any elk season opened, I was able to change my tag over to the east side without any problem.

[Curly]

Gumby, did you apply for special permit elk hunts?

[Gumby98366]

Nope, no special permits for me, so I can't speak on the affect that would have had on the situation... 

[jackelope]

Nope, no special permits for me, so I can't speak on the affect that would have had on the situation... 

You can't swap if you've applied because everyone and their brother would apply for eastside hunts, not get drawn then swap to the west side where they can hunt branched bulls.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Wildmanoutdoors,
 O.K., I guess I just misunderstood.
I saw someone that was interested in hunting Eastern Washington, but did not want to only chase spikes, I was pointing out that was not the only option.
............................................................................................
I hunted the west side from 1978 until 1988, then went over to the East-side until a couple years ago.
in 2008, I was drawn for the 3rd time for Observatory C, but failed to connect on a 7X8 I chased for 2 weeks, and decided to come back to the West-side.
This decision had as much to do with not wanting my wife and Kids to drive 8+ hours to come visit me in camp, as to the declining number of Elk  I was seeing(although more Branched Bulls than ever), and very few legal deer (3pt buck only) as I only got to really spend early season hunting, other than day trips, I picked an area I liked on the west-side.
Only having 2 points (3 this year) I dont expect to be drawn, but still apply for permits, maybe not as popular as some East-side permits, but if you look hard enough, there are some exceptional animals taken all over the state.
Good luck to you, wherever you hunt !

[jechicdr]

If it's not a quality elk, it's just meat anyway.  Doesn't matter to me if it's a spike or cow or raghorn.  I find the east side hunting is a lot more rewarding as far as the experience and I put in for quality elk in area I'm used to hunting.  If you hunt west side and then one year get drawn for a quality hunt, you'll spend a good deal of your "quality" hunt patterning the elk and have a good possibility of going home empty handed or have to pay someone to get you close to a good elk.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

If it's not a quality elk, it's just meat anyway.  Doesn't matter to me if it's a spike or cow or raghorn.  I find the east side hunting is a lot more rewarding as far as the experience and I put in for quality elk in area I'm used to hunting.  If you hunt west side and then one year get drawn for a quality hunt, you'll spend a good deal of your "quality" hunt patterning the elk and have a good possibility of going home empty handed or have to pay someone to get you close to a good elk.

That is what I did while hunting 340, but honestly believe that "patterning" Elk is not necessary to success in a "quality" area, you just have to pass on Elk that dont measure up to what you want.
I also learned that almost all pre-season scouting was worthless as soon as the season started, the elk moved to less impacted areas, and away from roads, something easily planned for, and takes almost no effort to figure out.
As far as me, I hunt with traditional equipment, and any legal Elk is a Trophy, but while hunting Manastash I had more opportunities at 5pt or better bulls than spikes, but when not drawn, it was a "Cow Hunt" because of the few spikes I would see.
I switched to West-side, and run into more "raghorn" 4 and 5 pts, with the occasional sighting of LARGE 5 and 6 pt bulls, makes it a "quality hunt"  to me w/o having to draw.
Hunting a new area, I asked about it on-line, and received few honest answers, did my own research and scouting, and on my first season ran into 78 elk in 6 days of hunting, sure I counted some twice (different day, same area) but found herds in 3 different areas, I believe I could find Elk in any area I apply for in a short amount of time, sure I will never (unless incredibly lucky) get a 350"+ Bull like I have run into on the East-side, but have seen them in the 275"-300" category, with a LOT in the 250" category, sure a "raghorn" by Eastern Washington standards, but (to me) a  "quality" hunt.