Cougar Seasons - Year Round/No Weapon Limits for Boot Hunters - Lets Change It!

[Malottguy]

What really makes me mad is the season is shut down during modern deer in the okanogan/chelan areas.

The largest cat I have ever seen was just last year smack dab in the middle of the general season. So wish I could of pulled my trigger.

[bearpaw]

Testing the waters with this question....

It seems the WDFW doesn't like the idea of having cougar open during rifle deer or elk seasons. Why not ask for cougar to be open year around except for when any general rifle deer or elk season is open?

Thoughts???

[BOWHUNTER45]

Testing the waters with this question....

It seems the WDFW doesn't like the idea of having cougar open during rifle deer or elk seasons. Why not ask for cougar to be open year around except for when any general rifle deer or elk season is open?

Thoughts???

none of it makes sense to me Dale .. what are the chances of even seeing one ? its not like everyone who buys a tag is going to fill it.. I have only seen 3 in my whole life and I have been all over this state inside and out... how many have you seen without a hound on his butt ? just out hunting on foot ? nothen makes sense to me on how they run cougar and bear hunting .. if we could bait bear they would save alot more younger animals .. 

[bearpaw]

Not saying how it needs to be, but trying to suggest an option that WDFW may consider.

I have talked to WDFW about the cougar issue during general rifle seasons. They told me one reason they cut back was that too many cougar (especially females) were being taken in general rifle seasons. Even though individual opportunity is limited, there are so many hunters in the woods that harvest adds up.

It's easy to sweeten your coffee with a little sugar:  So I was trying to suggest an option that may resonate with management and biology. At least if it was open other times of the year, it would give hunters another animal to hunt the rest of the year? 

That seems like a win/win to me, but it may not if you only like to make one or two hunting trips a year.

Any thoughts?

[grundy53]

I like the year round idea. Not so hot on the no cougar during general rifle season. I think the WDFW is full of BS saying to many are being taken. Just like their population estimates are BS. They don't want any cougar to be killed.

[Kain]

THe way I understood it, the weapon restriction was meant to help out the gamies.  Turns out they commonly caught a guy running around during deer or elk season with a deer rifle when he had already filled his tags. 
"Watcha doin'?"
 
"uh, Cougar huntin.."  He replies.

cant prove he wasn't..

if this were the case they would have done the same thing for bear.

Don't think it hasn't been thought of. They aleady want to shut down bear hunting in August.

If this is the real reason they would have to add weapon restricted seasons for all huntable wildlife.  I dont doubt they are thinking about that as well.

Not saying how it needs to be, but trying to suggest an option that WDFW may consider.

I have talked to WDFW about the cougar issue during general rifle seasons. They told me one reason they cut back was that too many cougar (especially females) were being taken in general rifle seasons. Even though individual opportunity is limited, there are so many hunters in the woods that harvest adds up.

It's easy to sweeten your coffee with a little sugar:  So I was trying to suggest an option that may resonate with management and biology. At least if it was open other times of the year, it would give hunters another animal to hunt the rest of the year? 

That seems like a win/win to me, but it may not if you only like to make one or two hunting trips a year.

Any thoughts?

I like the idea of at least some year round cougar hunting but I think we really need to push them to explain why they made the changes in the first place.  If you look at harvest numbers they stay consistent except for 2008 when a lower number of cougars were taken but a higher number of females.  One year does not make a trend and could have been a fluke.  After the shorter season and weapon restrictions the female harvest ratio went right back to about 50%.  I think this proves that 2008 is a fluke and also proves that the 3 or 4 females to every 1 males territory is questionable.  If that were the case you would see a LOT more females being taken. 

The carrot to dangle in front of the WDFW is the loss of revenue from to many ungulates being eaten.  For every adult cougar that can be taken there are around 37 ungulates that are lost per year.   
Year   Female   Total cats            Source
2010     78          165            http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2010/reports/cougar.php
2009     72          142            http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2009/reports/cougar.php
2008    106          188            http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2008/reports/cougar.php
2007    100          201            http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2007/cougar.php
2006     96          200            http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2006/cougar.php
2005     78          202            http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2005/cougar.php
2004    102          208            http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2004/cougar.pdf

[Pathfinder101]

I like the year round idea. Not so hot on the no cougar during general rifle season. I think the WDFW is full of BS saying to many are being taken. Just like their population estimates are BS. They don't want any cougar to be killed.

Like I said earlier; I don't think that is the actual case.  They may give the excuse that too many cougs are being taken in "certain units" to give the weapon restriction some legitimacy, but the truth is that it is to make deer and elk poachers easier to bust.  I think they did a little math; How many poachers did we have to "let go" last year because they happened to be carrying a cat tag minus the actual number of cougars killed incidentally during deer/elk season, and they figured it wasn't worth it...
I think a year around season that closes during the deer and elk MF seasons would be a fair compromise.  At least firewood cutters/berry pickers would have a chance to take a super-predator out of the mix from time to time...
We all know that there are too many cats.

[Curly]

Testing the waters with this question....

It seems the WDFW doesn't like the idea of having cougar open during rifle deer or elk seasons. Why not ask for cougar to be open year around except for when any general rifle deer or elk season is open?

Thoughts???

It really should be open during deer and elk season.  That is when most guys are going to take a cougar anyway. 

I used to always buy a cougar tag just in case I come across one while deer/elk hunting.  Now that they've changed the rules I don't bother buying cougar tags anymore.........I'm sure a lot of guys did the same.

At a time when WDFW needs all the money they can get, I don't see why they want to reduce the number of cougar tags sold.

[str8meat]

its not really gonna matter what happens with the cougar season after they start the 15 new packs of wolves. us hunters wont have any elk or deer left.

[grundy53]

I like the year round idea. Not so hot on the no cougar during general rifle season. I think the WDFW is full of BS saying to many are being taken. Just like their population estimates are BS. They don't want any cougar to be killed.

Like I said earlier; I don't think that is the actual case.  They may give the excuse that too many cougs are being taken in "certain units" to give the weapon restriction some legitimacy, but the truth is that it is to make deer and elk poachers easier to bust.  I think they did a little math; How many poachers did we have to "let go" last year because they happened to be carrying a cat tag minus the actual number of cougars killed incidentally during deer/elk season, and they figured it wasn't worth it...
I think a year around season that closes during the deer and elk MF seasons would be a fair compromise.  At least firewood cutters/berry pickers would have a chance to take a super-predator out of the mix from time to time...
We all know that there are too many cats.

If it were about poaching why didn't they change the bear season too? It's just as easy to say you are bear hunting as it is to say you are cougar hunting. I think the reason they did it has more to do with all of the tree huggers infatuation with cougars. It's the same infatuation they have with wolves.

[Kain]

  Or coyote, bobcat,raccoon, and so on.  It is ridiculous.  They dont want hunters with a rifle during modern that dont have  deer and elk tag and they dont want guys with rifles during archery and muzzleloader because they might be poachers.  Whats that leave? 

[Jack Diamond]

and how in the hell do they know actual cougar numbers anyway, they do not. ask the WDFW how many cougars reside in the Cedar river and Tolt and Green river watersheds, substantial land areas that are off limits to hunters, combined with national park areas, There never was a shortage of cougars when it was legal statewide to hunt with hounds.The hunters ed specialist in Ephrata stated to me 3 years ago that 20 cougars reside within the city limits of Cle-Elum. missing your puppy??

[bearpaw]

Last year we had 3 meetings with WDFW regarding whitetail management in NE WA. During these meetings the majority of participants cited predators as one of the biggest problems. We requested cougar harvest data and the WDFW was very forthcoming with harvest data.

The data does indicate that modern firarms hunters are taking a large number of cats in some areas, even more than hound hunters were taking. But that is not conclusive statewide. As was suggested here previously, they really have no count on cougar numbers, management is guided by harvest data in most areas of the state. They do have a good percentage of cats tagged in a couple areas, so they are able to predict roughly what percentage of cats are being taken in those areas by the percentage of marked cats that are taken. In one area that percentage was pretty high so cats are being pretty heavily harvested in some areas more than others. But, on the other hand, if you have a high harvest, then there is at least a pretty high population of cats, that point has to be driven home at times, they seem to overlook that liklihood.

With all that said, that is one of my reasons for suggesting year around hunting with an option for the dept to use permit only tags in areas that are below their management objective. If we suggest that, they may consider it. They may also consider limited entry cougar tags for deer and elk seasons too. It seems it would be hard for them to turn down the extra revenue of yet another draw for a few tags that most hunters will not fill anyway.

I know some of you hate all these draws, but that may be a way to get some cougar hunting back during deer and elk seasons. Just another suggestion to consider. We are definitely making headway with this conversation, lets keep hashing this out. 

[bearpaw]

I almost forgot to mention. The WDFW is half the battle, even if we don't win that battle, if we can convince the Wildlife Commission that cougar need to be managed more heavily, it's still possible to succeed. But the best scenario is to build support with the WDFW and also build support with the Commission, they do not often go against WDFW Dept recomendations.

[D360]

Not saying how it needs to be, but trying to suggest an option that WDFW may consider.

I have talked to WDFW about the cougar issue during general rifle seasons. They told me one reason they cut back was that too many cougar (especially females) were being taken in general rifle seasons. Even though individual opportunity is limited, there are so many hunters in the woods that harvest adds up.

It's easy to sweeten your coffee with a little sugar:  So I was trying to suggest an option that may resonate with management and biology. At least if it was open other times of the year, it would give hunters another animal to hunt the rest of the year? 

That seems like a win/win to me, but it may not if you only like to make one or two hunting trips a year.

Any thoughts?

Sounds like a good idea, if WDFW would allow it. Just another chance to be out in the woods all year!