Wolf Wars have moved to Washington

[robertg]

robert g two questions 1 what do you think is the correct number of breeding pairs for wa?
2 what is your personal feelings on gun ownership?

Honest answer, I have no idea, but I will go with what WDFW says, 15 breeding pairs. I have no problem with people owning guns to protect themselves.

ok, to protect themelves what about for recational use? I.E sport shooting, hunting, etc.

Don't have any problem with others hunting for food.

[alecvg]

robert g two questions 1 what do you think is the correct number of breeding pairs for wa?
2 what is your personal feelings on gun ownership?

This thread is getting rediculous.  Sadly, this is what we're going to face as we move forward with wolf recovery in WA.  If hunters don't put their heads together and come up with a coherent plan that addresses wolf numbers and management in a way that can satisfy the stakeholders, then we're screwed.
I really think this thread is so far off topic that it's usefulness has been lost.  Wolves are here to stay.  If hunters aren't going to be involved in a reasonable attempt to manage them, then we're not going to see anything happen that might benefit this percieved crisis. 
Basically, what I'm saying is that we need to get our $hit together and start thinking of some constructive ideas...more constructive than whining about the nativity, politics, gun rights, ... whatever other nonsense is here that has nothing to do with wolf recovery and our (hunters) having some part in the planning of a wolf plan. 

   I think robertg is getting us off-track.  We need to get our *censored* together and figure out how we are gonna fight this.[

[Wenatcheejay]

I think it is true, wolves had their place in YNP. If the original plan had been kept there would not be the issue. Instead a very bold move is still be played. What can Washington State expect? Lets look at the instant replay.


Lolo Elk Herd, Idaho     had 20,000 elk before wolves and now has 1700 total.
Gallitan Valley Elk Herd had  1500 before wolves and how has 200 total.
Yellowstone Elk Herd    had 20,000    elk before wolves and now has 6,500 total.
Jackson, WY Shiras Moose had 1200 Moose before wolves and now has 120 total.

Well, what are we acting all paranoid for? The Pro's are saying this is totally typical and that we are hysterical, radical, uneducated, I admit I am not a ace at math but this seems clear. Unmanaged wolves are unacceptable. We invested in the Wildlife and that is being wasted. It is unnecessary.

Now, 10 wolves in Washington. 2 confermed dead and 8 missing has created a Statewide manhunt for imaginary mass poachers. Keystone Cops at their best. (Ridiculous, I wish I had been there at the meeting.)

[robertg]

robert g two questions 1 what do you think is the correct number of breeding pairs for wa?
2 what is your personal feelings on gun ownership?

This thread is getting rediculous.  Sadly, this is what we're going to face as we move forward with wolf recovery in WA.  If hunters don't put their heads together and come up with a coherent plan that addresses wolf numbers and management in a way that can satisfy the stakeholders, then we're screwed.
I really think this thread is so far off topic that it's usefulness has been lost.  Wolves are here to stay.  If hunters aren't going to be involved in a reasonable attempt to manage them, then we're not going to see anything happen that might benefit this percieved crisis. 
Basically, what I'm saying is that we need to get our $hit together and start thinking of some constructive ideas...more constructive than whining about the nativity, politics, gun rights, ... whatever other nonsense is here that has nothing to do with wolf recovery and our (hunters) having some part in the planning of a wolf plan. 

I agree.

[sebek556]

ok thank you I was getting someback ground on who i am talking to.
now robert  these 15 wolf packs will this include instate transent packs?

[WAcoyotehunter]

robert g two questions 1 what do you think is the correct number of breeding pairs for wa?
2 what is your personal feelings on gun ownership?

Honest answer, I have no idea, but I will go with what WDFW says, 15 breeding pairs. I have no problem with people owning guns to protect themselves.

ok, to protect themelves what about for recational use? I.E sport shooting, hunting, etc.

Don't have any problem with others hunting for food.

Robert- you're going to loss any credibility by not being a hunter on a hunting website, but I don't think it's all that bad that you're here.  We're all going to have to work together in the wolf recovery.  If hunters think they can manage this deal without input from antihunters they're crazy.  EVERYONE is going to be at the table.  I'm glad to hear your input

[alecvg]

I think it is true, wolves had their place in YNP. If the original plan had been kept there would not be the issue. Instead a very bold move is still be played. What can Washington State expect? Lets look at the instant replay.


Lolo Elk Herd, Idaho     had 20,000 elk before wolves and now has 1700 total.
Gallitan Valley Elk Herd had  1500 before wolves and how has 200 total.
Yellowstone Elk Herd    had 20,000    elk before wolves and now has 6,500 total.
Jackson, WY Shiras Moose had 1200 Moose before wolves and now has 120 total.

Well, what are we acting all paranoid for? The Pro's are saying this is totally typical and that we are hysterical, radical, uneducated, I admit I am not a ace at math but this seems clear. Unmanaged wolves are unacceptable. We invested in the Wildlife and that is being wasted. It is unnecessary.

Now, 10 wolves in Washington. 2 confermed dead and 8 missing has created a Statewide manhunt for imaginary mass poachers. Keystone Cops at their best. (Ridiculous, I wish I had been there at the meeting.)

Very well said.  I am willing to accept wolves.  But them MUST be managed, like the original plan was, I think 15 breeding pairs is too much.  And as said earlier, maybe now they are considered an invasive species?  Maybe the environment has changed, yes, they were once native, but can the environment we have now handle them?  I don't know, I am skeptical.

[robertg]

ok thank you I was getting someback ground on who i am talking to.
now robert  these 15 wolf packs will this include instate transent packs?

 when they are 15 breeding pairs in WA for 3 years, then I believe they will be delisted.

[CementFinisher]

Has there been a organization organised yet for WA hunters to join to help monetarily and to voice our opinions? Is there a gov committie still active on this issue in WA? We need to organise. We need to find some hunter friendly BIO'S that can help with good statistics and info

[WAcoyotehunter]

is there any way to legislate so that there cannot be lawsuits when management occurs? We need to know that hunting will be the end result of wolf recovery. 

[robertg]

robert g two questions 1 what do you think is the correct number of breeding pairs for wa?
2 what is your personal feelings on gun ownership?

Honest answer, I have no idea, but I will go with what WDFW says, 15 breeding pairs. I have no problem with people owning guns to protect themselves.

ok, to protect themelves what about for recational use? I.E sport shooting, hunting, etc.

Don't have any problem with others hunting for food.

Robert- you're going to loss any credibility by not being a hunter on a hunting website, but I don't think it's all that bad that you're here.  We're all going to have to work together in the wolf recovery.  If hunters think they can manage this deal without input from antihunters they're crazy.  EVERYONE is going to be at the table.  I'm glad to hear your input

I don't hunt, but I'm always open to what the other side has to say. The only way anything will get done is if all sides come together and talk about it. All the talk about "sss" and wanting wolves exterminated will not help anything.

[grundy53]

ok thank you I was getting someback ground on who i am talking to.
now robert  these 15 wolf packs will this include instate transent packs?

 when they are 15 breeding pairs in WA for 3 years, then I believe they will be delisted.

The citizens of Idaho and Montana were told the samething when they reintroduced the wolves back in 1996. Ask them how that went.....

[WAcoyotehunter]

Has there been a organization organised yet for WA hunters to join to help monetarily and to voice our opinions? Is there a gov committie still active on this issue in WA? We need to organise. We need to find some hunter friendly BIO'S that can help with good statistics and info

I agree- a reasonable approach and organization would be helpful to send a unified message.

[sebek556]

ok thank you I was getting someback ground on who i am talking to.
now robert  these 15 wolf packs will this include instate transent packs?

 when they are 15 breeding pairs in WA for 3 years, then I believe they will be delisted.

Does this 15 pairs include the wolves crossing from canada and idaho? this is what i am asking, sorry if i did'nt get it across properly my spelling and gammar are horrible

[robertg]

ok thank you I was getting someback ground on who i am talking to.
now robert  these 15 wolf packs will this include instate transent packs?

 when they are 15 breeding pairs in WA for 3 years, then I believe they will be delisted.

The citizens of Idaho and Montana were told the samething when they reintroduced the wolves back in 1996. Ask them how that went.....

I'm not going to change your mind. If you don't think wolves will be delisted when there are 15 breeding pairs, I don't know what to tell you.