How to train a lab to point

[Snowman]

Wanting to train my lab to point and not looking to send her off to a trainer. Just looking for some tips on how to go about it and don't real want to buy a book. So some input would be greatly appreciated. She is really well mannered and is a easy learner.

[Skyvalhunter]

First of all do you have a shock collar? How old is you Lab?

[Snowman]

No shock collar and she is a year and half old

[Wayne1]

If your dog does'nt point natural, then about all you can do is teach her/him is to stand game. One way is to card a pidgon and put your dog in a long lead. At first your dog will try and flush the bird, but with you holding the end of the lead, hold your dog to where he/she can not catch the bird at the same time yelling "Whoa". It'll take quit a few time's [unless your dog is a quick learner]. When I trained my dog, I had him sit in frount of me, gave him the stay comand, and with the lead connected to his collar, I would steadly put pressure, pulling the lead toward me little by little,..  at the same time repeating the word "Whoa". My lab is a natural pointer..  just wanted him to learn to hold a staunch point. After that it also made it easyer to teach him steady to flush, and steady to shot.

[Snowman]

Her first time out was pheasant hunting and the first bird she found was about 5 feet in front of her and stop on a dime and looked at the bird then at me after about the fourth time she looked at me I sent her. But since then she was sick and then in heat for pretty much the rest of pheasant season. So I didn't get a chance to work with her more on it. I just don't her to catch the scent and blow off running to where I won't be able to shoot. My other lab does that and don't want my pup to do it. I don't run them together so she doesn't get the bad habits I've been trying to work out of the other one. If she'd just hold steady on one that would be good. I'll work with her on a long lead. I can get her to sit and stay and can walk away from her pretty far.

[Wayne1]

here's an artical that might help ya some

http://www.northernflight.com/whoa.htm

[Skyvalhunter]

Make sure she doesn't start flushing on you. Once they point make her hold with "whoa" until you release her by an ok or tap on the body. If she starts flushing on her own thats not good. It would be good if you had a homing pigeon otherwise it gets expensive buying birds to train her on. But make sure she learns the command "whoa".

[Snowman]

Thanks that will help quite a bit. Ok Sky. She is already trained  for release by her name or by a wave of the hand infront of her. So I will keep that as her release when flushing, but is it a big deal when you release them if they don't stand after the flush or do you want them to stop after flush until the bird is down?

[Wayne1]

I like my dog's steady to flush and steady to shot...that way their not in danger in case another bird flush's up and someone take's the shot... plus if their steady till the bird is down...  they get a good mark on the landing...if your hunting tall grass, and your dog break's on the flush and shot..  they may not see the fall and have to put on a hunt for the retrieve

[Snowman]

Ok. then will train her to steady on flush. She's good at not going after the shot as I've worked with her with a starter gun and keep her on a leash when waterfowling to get her used to staying until sent. So will do the same them.

[Snowman]

Thanks guys for the input and any more suggestion are appreciated.

[Snowman]

Where can you get live birds and how much they usauly run? I have a bunch of wings already which would work to get her started steadying.

[Wayne1]

we raise pidgon's, but buy chucker, and pheasent on the place where we train every week. Maybe if someone's on this thread's from around the area where you live, they can point you in a direction. You might see if there's a AKC, NAHRA, HRC club around you close...   get ahold of a member in their club and see where they get their bird's from... also ask them about their training group's that you could join in.

[Skyvalhunter]

My trainer buys his from a guy in Eastern Wa. Another buddy of mine raises his own. Remember unless you are on private property you can't take the birds to the release site and practice with them during the birds nesting season. Think its march-till hunting season or there abouts. So if you know or have a field of your own them thats the best. My trainer has me just pay for the birds to practice on his property in Falls City.

[Snowman]

He'll let other's buy from him or pratice on his property. I have some private property to use, butsometimes they have cows on them and the bulls get pretty mean. They'll chase rigs down.

[Snowman]

Ok Wayne1. I know there are groups that train around here and there's aplace out inbtween duvall and carnation to.

[Intruder]

Wanting to train my lab to point

Not to be a smart ass but why?  If your lab isn't a natural at it you're kinda fighting against nature to a degree.  There are certainly a % of labs that point but the majority of the retrieving breeds are more geared to flushing.  As Wayne1 said there are some things you can do but you're likely talking about a fair amount of work.  Those training scenarios can often be difficult and or frustrating.... for you and the dog.  That leads into potentially hurting the dog or creating other training problems.  If training really isn't your passion you may be better just working to bring out your dog's natural strengths and abilities.  It will probably still turn out just fine as a pheasant dog.  

This isn't directed at you Snowman... but your pointing lab scenario kinda got me thingking about what goes into picking a breed.  I know so many people who've gotten dogs and they try to make em into something they're not.  Got a friend who got a dog cuz he said he always wanted that particular breed.  Now he's aggravated cuz its got long hair and doesn't have the demeanor he expects.  So he shaves the dog and gets all frustrated when it doesn't act like he expects.  In reality, the dog is representative of the breed.  

Have other friends who have a pointing breed.  They're constantly complaining cuz the dog is high strung and isn't great in the house.  Shocker. Now they make it wear a shock collar and confine it to the garage most of the time.  

My point being.... a lot of folks would be a heck of a lot happier if they did a little bit of research and gained some understanding of the characteristics of the various breeds before they make up their mind to get 1.  At least then, they're not trying to reverse 300 years of breeding with a big stick and shock collar.    

  

[Wayne1]

All great point's Intruder. That's why I reserched and decided on a Pointing Lab, their great as house dog's, willing to train. I can go waterfowling in the morning, and upland in the afternoon. My lab is'nt as high strung as the typical pointing breed's, work's a little slower, but still with some speed, and does'nt run over or past bird's. We run some Bird Dog Challange's and I run my lab in the pointing divison, in stead of the Flushing class. We run against Pointer's, GSP's, Etc., We've never won one.. "Yet", but we do beat out alot of the non-lab's...  noticed they run and cover so much land so quick...  they do run over and miss some bird's, where as a lab's alittle slower and his nose don't miss a thing. I'm not downing the Pointing breed's...  there awesome dog's and have won all the event's we've entered. I just like haveing 0ne dog that does all. There are Pointer's that waterfowl..  but when the temp get's bone chillin..  they have more trouble with the cold.

[tlbradford]

Wanting to train my lab to point

Have other friends who have a pointing breed.  They're constantly complaining cuz the dog is high strung and isn't great in the house.  Shocker. Now they make it wear a shock collar and confine it to the garage most of the time.

I would go further in saying that you should choose a breed based more on the environment that you are living in, rather than attributes you would like to have in the field.  I chose my golden retriever in college because I needed a smart, laid back, easy to train dog, because of the lack of space and time to train.  If I were picking based on attributes I desired in a breed, I would have gone with a Weim or GSP, but it would be cruel to pen those animals up and not run them very often. 

[Wayne1]

tlbradford ..  you and Intruder are 100 % correct.

[Snowman]

I understand what your saying and have done some reading on it. I have not tried to train her to point, was just wondering what you guys thought. She is a great duck and goose dog. She can do multiplte retrieve with out a blink of an eye. She doesn't go until I release her with her name you can say fetch and she won't go. I got her mainly for duck and goose. But also would like to use her for upland bird as well, so in others it sounds like I should train her for flushing rather than pointing. What I am working with her on is not to get more than 15 yards out infront of me and she has that down pat. Now should I just continue to futher her in that and if she hits a bird just let her flush as she won't go after it if it flies until the gun goes off and I release her. I'm just worried about her taking off on a running bird. I've also have never used a ecollar and don't plan to as I know it is all about repetion. She natural stops on a dime when she's found a pheasant.  She is mello and has the attitude of what can I do for you. I've never got fustrated as I know that could be a bad thing. I got her cause I like labs and know they're great waterfowl dogs. Thanks for your guys input and I'll just stick to what I'm doing and capitalize off of her abilities

[tlbradford]

It sounds like you have done a great job.  I would just get her on some birds and see how she does.  The more experience you can give her in the field, the better she'll be when the excitement starts and the shooting goes on.  If she stops naturally when she sees a bird, then you may want to teach her to hold until you release her, but if you have a dog that stays within 15 yards then I don't think you really need to.  If she stays, heels, or whoas on command I really wouldn't worry about her chasing a running bird.

[jackelope]

snowman...try to get a hold of joan fetty with the rainier hunting retriever club. they hold the upland trials at cherry valley and other places in the valley here. she does obedience training also and we worked with her and obedience with my pooch. if she doesn't know where to get birds, she'll know someone to connect you with to get birds.

[Snowman]

Cool thanks jackelope. Will do. I thank you for all of  your guys input.

[Shannon]

Not to come across as a smart ass but why would you want to train a dog that hunts 15 yards from you to point (or stand birds if they don't point naturally). The whole idea of a pointer is to cover large areas and point the game until you get close enough to shoot them. At 15 yards you already are close enough. I have a pointer that ranges 100 yards out and holds point until I flush the bird but a lot of pointer people would think that is a bootlicker and doesn't range far enough. That is her natural range though and that is what I am comfortable with anyways. I like to see my dog and she naturally likes to check in with me. If we get in to thick cover she shortens her range to 20 yards or so by herself like if we are hunting grouse or something. The real advantage to a pointer over a flushing dog IMO is when you are hunting chukar, sage hens, huns, or other birds that inhabit a wide open country. Just my two cents, but if you want to do something as complex as train a pointing dog you should at least be willing to read a book or two. The time spent reading will save you and the dog a lot of grief. Take it for what it is worth.

[Snowman]

I hear ya shannon. And with all the great opions I have recieved, I'm going to stick with her as she is.

[whitey]

Take the dog to cooke canyon have Doug put it into his upland dog school and watch out,he is outstanding. http://hstrial-aburnett.homestead.com/Ruger_pointing_May_6_2008.jpg

[Snowman]

Did your naturally point or was he trained to point?

[Skyvalhunter]

Knowing Whitey he's going to tell you his dog was born pointing!!

[Snowman]

LOL

[Wayne1]

Here's a pic of Tank's 1/2 sister on point

[Snowman]

That's a cool pic.

[Shannon]

That is a pretty point. I think that dog belongs to a chiropractor in Spokane or maybe it is his daughters. He goes by Doc E on another forum. Pretty knowledgable guy especially about dogs and nutrition.

[Wayne1]

Yup..  That Casey's [Doc E's dog] Daughter..   Casey is Tanks sire

[whitey]

Come on Guys! Ruger came right out of his momma on point. He points at everything,food bowl,t.v. remote,empty beer can,full beer can you name it. No but Ruger is a natural pointing lab. It took next to no effort to get him to point. Hold point, Now that took a little effort. Modern electronics, that is the key.

[Skyvalhunter]

SEE

[whitey]

We are going to be running over to Pitts game farm soon if anybody is interested in riding along or meeting us over there. No date has been set, lets take a look at that, good training for preseason.. Lord only knows I could use all the help I can get!