Going Heavy - Ashby

[Intruder]

I'm looking for input from those of you who have experience using the concepts/methods of Dr. Ashby.  First, let me say that I am not looking to start a debate or looking for reasons not to adopt Dr. Ashby's methods.  What I am looking for is recommendations or tips regarding a setup for the parameters I'm outlining below:
1. Compound bow (Hoyt AlphaMax)
2. Shaft length 28.5" (excluding broadhead & nock)
3. Achieve a FOC of 20% or >
4. Abowyer Wapiti 175 Grain Single Bevel Broad Head
5. Total arrow weight (broadhead/inserts/shaft/etc) of > = 600grns

Any info regarding shaft selection, tuning, fletching, inserts, even alternate broadheads would be appreciated.

[jackelope]

Todd_ID is your guy here...he's used these methods and is fluent. You might try a search on here for more info because I know he had a thread on here at one time. If he is at work, it may be a few days before he sees this.

[Intruder]

Todd_ID is your guy here...he's used these methods and is fluent. You might try a search on here for more info because I know he had a thread on here at one time. If he is at work, it may be a few days before he sees this.

Already pinged him .... thnx.

[Camp David]

Intruder,
My  . 1. I also have a Alpha Max. Jury is still out on how much i like it. The cams are fairly radical which causes the arrow to jump up at the end of the draw. Still can't get it to shoot as well s my other Hoyt. My arrows are cut to the length that allows a broad head to clear my rest. You can have the broad head in front of or behind the front of the riser depending on your rest. You never mentioned arrow spline. With that heavy broad head make sure that you match you arrow spline to match the bow draw weight. With the wrong spline, you will never be able to get your arrows to shoot good groups expecially with broad heads. I have no experence with the Abowyer Wapiti broadhead. The important thing with shooting a accurate broad head is a well tuned bow. Your on the right track with determining FOC, but make sure you make sure that the arrow spline is correct and the bow is tuned correctly. I guess that your not looking for arrow speed as much as down range energy with a 600 gr arrow.

[jackelope]

http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx

Scroll down, there's lots of studies posted here from Dr. Ashby. I'm guessing Intruder's already seen this but for those who haven't...

Read on.

[whacker1]

http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx

Scroll down, there's lots of studies posted here from Dr. Ashby. I'm guessing Intruder's already seen this but for those who haven't...

Read on.

Wow - Very interesting level of detail and testing, but expensive .  $109 for a three pack of the Ashby single bevel?

[Todd_ID]

New laptop... still working today on getting On Target back up and running.  I can say that it's possible to shoot lengthwise through a big bodied muley buck with it.  Shattered front shoulder and femur both.

[Todd_ID]

http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx

Scroll down, there's lots of studies posted here from Dr. Ashby. I'm guessing Intruder's already seen this but for those who haven't...

Read on.

Wow - Very interesting level of detail and testing, but expensive .  $109 for a three pack of the Ashby single bevel?

There's plenty of good broadheads though that fit the requirements.  Mine are Grizzly heads at like $23 per 6.

[Button Nubbs]

My arrow is an eston axis .300 cut to 29" 3 blazers and a wrap 100gr muzzy hit insert 125gr magnus stinger. Total weight is 575gr. I have a hard time believing anything in this state would stop it. I shoot a maxxis 35 at 70lbs and it shoots 250fps with this arrow. if that's what your looking for but hope it helps. Oh yea, 18% foc

[whacker1]

http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx

Scroll down, there's lots of studies posted here from Dr. Ashby. I'm guessing Intruder's already seen this but for those who haven't...

Read on.

Wow - Very interesting level of detail and testing, but expensive .  $109 for a three pack of the Ashby single bevel?

There's plenty of good broadheads though that fit the requirements.  Mine are Grizzly heads at like $23 per 6.

How much does the arrow weigh?

[RadSav]

I'm not a real big fan of the dentist.  He puts so much emphasis on penetration he usually forgets what gets the job done - sharpness.  To your question though - I can not give you a recommendation on shafts without knowing your draw length and weight.  However, downloading "Archers Advantage" will go a long way to putting you on the right track.  With that heavy an arrow/broadhead combination you are going to need some good size fletching or four fletch.  Plastic or naturals shouldn't matter much with that kind of FOC combined with the modern risered bow.  Muzzy makes a good assortment of brass inserts for most of the carbon arrow sizes out there.  For the price of just a few of those broadheads you can have a local Swiss Machine shop make them for you.  I've had Moonlight in Monroe and Foulger Precision in Castle Rock do good work at good prices.  That would allow you to use what ever broadhead you wanted and fall into your FOC requirements.  Good Luck!

[Snapshot]

I find that if the arrow is built properly you don't have to have huge fletchings. I have some 700 grain arrows, 17% FOC, fletched with three 4" feathers and they fly well. If you built them to fly straight without any fletching whatsoever you can get away with smaller fletching.

[Snapshot]

It has been awhile RadSav since I read all the studies but I seem to recall that Ashby puts quite a bit of emphasis on the quality of the steel; that it has to be good enough that the broadhead will still have a sharp edge after breaching bone. But yes, his studies are focused on testing a given arrow's ability to deliver the broadhead to points beyond the near side rib.

[Snapshot]

There's plenty of good broadheads though that fit the requirements.  Mine are Grizzly heads at like $23 per 6.

[ribka]

There's plenty of good broadheads though that fit the requirements.  Mine are Grizzly heads at like $23 per 6.

Grizzly good heads. Takes awhile to get the hang of sharpening them

[RadSav]

SnapShot, I wouldn't mind discussing fletching and the dentist further.  However, I think we would be loosing the direction Intruder was hoping for with this forum.  Contact me if you start a different forum.

In regards to fletching for Intruder I did not mention "Huge" fletching just good sized fletching.  You can definately go smaller with feathers and you also want to have a good flying bare shaft before fletching.  But remember, conditions in the field are usually filled with obsticles beyond those you will find on the range.  The large FOC will definately help eliminate a good number of issues you will encounter, but correct fletching will add additional consistancy and security in the field.

Always good to error on the side of too much rather than not enough.  I would venture to think that is the goal of shooting the Ashby concepts/method, isn't it?

[bow_hunter44]

I'm looking for input from those of you who have experience using the concepts/methods of Dr. Ashby.  First, let me say that I am not looking to start a debate or looking for reasons not to adopt Dr. Ashby's methods.  What I am looking for is recommendations or tips regarding a setup for the parameters I'm outlining below:
1. Compound bow (Hoyt AlphaMax)
2. Shaft length 28.5" (excluding broadhead & nock)
3. Achieve a FOC of 20% or >
4. Abowyer Wapiti 175 Grain Single Bevel Broad Head
5. Total arrow weight (broadhead/inserts/shaft/etc) of > = 600grns

Any info regarding shaft selection, tuning, fletching, inserts, even alternate broadheads would be appreciated.

Being able to meet all of the above criteria is a bit difficult.  That heavy of an arrow with a FOC > 20% is tough.  To get close you will have to get a heavy insert.  Brass inserts are available at Three Rivers Archery (and most likely other places as well) in 50 and 100 grain.  Also, there are weight adapters available that screw into the back of an aluminum insert.  The 'problem' with them is that they are farther back in the arrow making a high FOC more difficult to achieve.

Making a few assumptions (65 lb draw, 29" draw) you can get close with a .300 spine arrow.  However, as you increase draw weight, the spine of the arrow becomes insufficient - even with .300 spine.  A FMJ will get you close in arrow weight but the FOC is only slightly above 17%, an ACC (3-71) is closer in FOC (19%), but only weighs 535 grains.  The above is with a 50 grain insert.  To accomplish what you are after would need around 100 grains of insert.  With that much weight up front you would have to turn your bow down or the spine of the arrow would be too weak.  At 60 lbs the spine of a .300 a 28.5" arrow would work.  The FMJ would weigh 644 grains and have a FOC of 19.6%, while the ACC would weigh 587 grains and have a FOC of 21.5%.  BUT you would have to turn your bow down to 60 lbs.  This would be with Blazer vanes and no wrap.  The FOC could be bumped a bit with feathers, but that changes the spine of the arrow, which in turn changes that how much draw weight can be used....

All of this stuff depends on draw length, draw weight, ATA of your bow, shaft length, wrap weight, fletching weight, nock weight, d-loop weight, if you have a brass nock set or not, if you have silencers on the string.........