Why is it spike only for Eastside Elk

[Austrian Hunter]

I thought the idea was to kill all the genetically deficient spike bulls, while letting the bigger bodied branch antlered bulls impregnate as many of the heard as possible, leading to more bigger bodied branch antler bulls in the future. Is this not correct?

 
No, I don't think that has anything to do with it. For one thing, how do you know the spikes are "genetically deficient?" Most spike bull elk are just yearlings and very well could be 6x6 bulls in their 3rd or 4th years. The spike only season is so that the WDFW can continue to sell over-the-counter elk tags, with no limit on the number sold, and still maintain a healthy bull/cow ratio. The younger spike elk are more numerous and therefore, more expendable.

 

[ribka]

When this rule came out our hunting camp almost gave up elk hunting. But it has greatly improved the herd in the area I hunt. Before the spike only rule we had a bunch of raghorns. Now we have some of the best elk hunting in the state. There is no way to please everyone.  I don't mind shooting spikes, they really aren't that hard to find.

And for those wishing we would go to a draw to hunt type deal, I am totally 100 percent against that crap. I want to hunt each and every year and have lots of money invested in equipment and such to go hunting. So if i could not hunt one year I would probably just give it up and sell all my hunting stuff. Our state is not the best but it really ain't that bad neither.

With all due respect, I totally hear what you are saying, however, I do not think you understand how much MORE hunting you could do with the proper draw system. WA is WAAAAAY behind other western states when it comes to how they issue their tags.

For example.. in MT, you must be in for a draw every year.. more than likely as a resident, you will get your tag.. odds are in the 80s I think for most popular elk areas and near 100% in popular deer areas, such as the Missouri Breaks... FOR RESIDENTS. For NON residents.. the odds are WAY Lower.

The benefits are:

You actually get a season to hunt, months, not just weeks.


AND.. more importantly...

It keeps the "night before" hunters from going to the store and buying their tag and a cooler full of beer to come join you on the hill.

Besides....

What would happen if you did not get your elk tag that year.. BUT instead got several months to go after that Trophy Mule Deer you have been after?

I would take that in a heart beat because as you were saying.. you want the hunting time.. with a PROPER draw system.. we would get MORE of that and perhaps this "spike only" crap would go away too.

 

Take a look at populations in both states:
Washington - 6,395,798
Montana - 944,632

Washington has more than six times the human population and Montana has more much land and more game animals available to hunters

If Washington went to draw one would probably draw once every 5-7 years.

Plus out-of staters would also begin applying too.

I like hunting every year. I think with our game populations, amount of land probably best system possible for all. Even for non-pro team hunters

Draw only in

[BLKBEARKLR]

Draw only. Jack the prices up triple what they are now, still make the same money and less hunters out there. Throw in some bonus points for wolves................

[gasman]

WOW, no one remember why they went to spike only in the first place, it has not been that long ago 

The winter kill of 95-96 ( I believe)..... The winter kill was so bad they changed the rules to spike only for elk and 3 point min. for mule deer. It was suppose to be a 6 year plan to build the herdback up but when the state seen how much money they were making,they just could not stand to lose that revenue.

The herd objectives were met and are better today then they were back then but they won't change it, hence the increase in bull tags over the years. It was not to long ago that the they were giving out 300 cow tags per unit in the Yakima area to keep the numbers down and keep the elk from encroaching to the city and farm. Many farmers were killing elk and leaving them to rot in back of there property because the WDFW would not do any thing about the damage they were causing, the herd numbers were good.

I spoke to some of the Bios. in the Yakima are with the WDFW and FS,and they both recommended to change back to any bull but the commission shot down there recommendation and increased permits to make up for it 

One fear that the WDFW had was, if they opened up to any bull, they the hunting pressure would double and decimate the herd, at least that was there fear or excuse I got when I asked questions and poked around back then.

[rtspring]

Go back to the people who drew the Quality Bull tags this year and in years past and ask them?

1. How was your hunt?
2. Would you have been able to kill such a quality bull if it wasn't for the SPIKE ONLY rule?
3. How excited were you when you drew the tag?

Now lets say it was ANY ELK on the eastside, how many of these guys and gals would have had the chance to kill such a magnificent animal??   very few

If you want to kill a branch antlered bull and not hunt SPIKES, travel to the WETSIDE. I did it and had a blast and killed a 4X4 that was huge...

[Fullabull]

 

With the human population in this state and the elk numbers (btw, WA has the highest hunter to elk ratio of any state, not good for draw system) here, I believe the current system is not bad. RT is correct, you can hunt any elk you want, the choice is up to you

Fulla

[Elkaholic daWg]

  Gasman, you are right regarding the winter kill of 95-96 and the mule deer herds, but spike only elk was implemented in 1994 or 95 in the Yakima and Colockum areas, while it happened in the Blues a few years earlier than that

[MDGrand]

With the human population in this state and the elk numbers (btw, WA has the highest hunter to elk ratio of any state, not good for draw system) here, I believe the current system is not bad. RT is correct, you can hunt any elk you want, the choice is up to you

Fulla

We have a higher elk to hunter ratio because of the over counter tag system.

[gasman]

Well I remember (as good as my memeorie is  ) hunting any bull in the winter of 95 up at Bald Mt and haveing so much snow, we had stay below the 1701 because the snow was so deep, it was the worst winter I have ever seen over there.

And it was after the winter of 95 when they started to move the season in to Oct. and cut the season days to 9 verses 15 (Nov. 1-15). you know, back whenif you put in for cow tags, you coumd not hunt the first three days regardless if you drew a cow tag or not 

[MDGrand]

When this rule came out our hunting camp almost gave up elk hunting. But it has greatly improved the herd in the area I hunt. Before the spike only rule we had a bunch of raghorns. Now we have some of the best elk hunting in the state. There is no way to please everyone.  I don't mind shooting spikes, they really aren't that hard to find.

And for those wishing we would go to a draw to hunt type deal, I am totally 100 percent against that crap. I want to hunt each and every year and have lots of money invested in equipment and such to go hunting. So if i could not hunt one year I would probably just give it up and sell all my hunting stuff. Our state is not the best but it really ain't that bad neither.

With all due respect, I totally hear what you are saying, however, I do not think you understand how much MORE hunting you could do with the proper draw system. WA is WAAAAAY behind other western states when it comes to how they issue their tags.

For example.. in MT, you must be in for a draw every year.. more than likely as a resident, you will get your tag.. odds are in the 80s I think for most popular elk areas and near 100% in popular deer areas, such as the Missouri Breaks... FOR RESIDENTS. For NON residents.. the odds are WAY Lower.

The benefits are:

You actually get a season to hunt, months, not just weeks.


AND.. more importantly...

It keeps the "night before" hunters from going to the store and buying their tag and a cooler full of beer to come join you on the hill.

Besides....

What would happen if you did not get your elk tag that year.. BUT instead got several months to go after that Trophy Mule Deer you have been after?

I would take that in a heart beat because as you were saying.. you want the hunting time.. with a PROPER draw system.. we would get MORE of that and perhaps this "spike only" crap would go away too.

 

Take a look at populations in both states:
Washington - 6,395,798
Montana - 944,632

Washington has more than six times the human population and Montana has more much land and more game animals available to hunters

If Washington went to draw one would probably draw once every 5-7 years.

Plus out-of staters would also begin applying too.

I like hunting every year. I think with our game populations, amount of land probably best system possible for all. Even for non-pro team hunters

Draw only in

Comparing the population in both states is not all together sound. Not everyone in WA hunts. In fact most do not. So the proper comparison would be to see how many licenses for hunting each state issues. That would be an interesting statistic.

Finally, for all those against a draw system...

What i am talking about is the right draw system for RESIDENTS. MT residents hardly worry about getting their tag because they are more likely to get it than non residents. Also putting in for a draw requires work... Work a nom serious hunter would not do. WA caters to the non serious hunter by providing tags at will.

$0.02 :-)

[hughjorgan]

When this rule came out our hunting camp almost gave up elk hunting. But it has greatly improved the herd in the area I hunt. Before the spike only rule we had a bunch of raghorns. Now we have some of the best elk hunting in the state. There is no way to please everyone.  I don't mind shooting spikes, they really aren't that hard to find.

And for those wishing we would go to a draw to hunt type deal, I am totally 100 percent against that crap. I want to hunt each and every year and have lots of money invested in equipment and such to go hunting. So if i could not hunt one year I would probably just give it up and sell all my hunting stuff. Our state is not the best but it really ain't that bad neither.

With all due respect, I totally hear what you are saying, however, I do not think you understand how much MORE hunting you could do with the proper draw system. WA is WAAAAAY behind other western states when it comes to how they issue their tags.

For example.. in MT, you must be in for a draw every year.. more than likely as a resident, you will get your tag.. odds are in the 80s I think for most popular elk areas and near 100% in popular deer areas, such as the Missouri Breaks... FOR RESIDENTS. For NON residents.. the odds are WAY Lower.

The benefits are:

You actually get a season to hunt, months, not just weeks.


AND.. more importantly...

It keeps the "night before" hunters from going to the store and buying their tag and a cooler full of beer to come join you on the hill.

Besides....

What would happen if you did not get your elk tag that year.. BUT instead got several months to go after that Trophy Mule Deer you have been after?

I would take that in a heart beat because as you were saying.. you want the hunting time.. with a PROPER draw system.. we would get MORE of that and perhaps this "spike only" crap would go away too.

 

Take a look at populations in both states:
Washington - 6,395,798
Montana - 944,632

Washington has more than six times the human population and Montana has more much land and more game animals available to hunters

If Washington went to draw one would probably draw once every 5-7 years.

Plus out-of staters would also begin applying too.

I like hunting every year. I think with our game populations, amount of land probably best system possible for all. Even for non-pro team hunters

Draw only in

Comparing the population in both states is not all together sound. Not everyone in WA hunts. In fact most do not. So the proper comparison would be to see how many licenses for hunting each state issues. That would be an interesting statistic.

Finally, for all those against a draw system...

What i am talking about is the right draw system for RESIDENTS. MT residents hardly worry about getting their tag because they are more likely to get it than non residents. Also putting in for a draw requires work... Work a nom serious hunter would not do. WA caters to the non serious hunter by providing tags at will.

$0.02 :-)

What qualifies as a "non serious hunter" ? So we shouldn't allow certain people to hunt because they aren't serious enough?

[Elkaholic daWg]

Well I remember (as good as my memeorie is  ) hunting any bull in the winter of 95 up at Bald Mt and haveing so much snow, we had stay below the 1701 because the snow was so deep, it was the worst winter I have ever seen over there.

And it was after the winter of 95 when they started to move the season in to Oct. and cut the season days to 9 verses 15 (Nov. 1-15). you know, back whenif you put in for cow tags, you coumd not hunt the first three days regardless if you drew a cow tag or not 

 As us Colockum hunters had been forced to October hunt since the early 80's,  We figured that you Yakima tag guys would raise a firestorm and get them both moved back a week. My first tag year was 1997 when you lost the first 3 days (The last year).  There were any Bull S/P's (over 90 of 'em) in 1996. (Naneum Quilomene, Mission) Now there are about 5! Spike only started in either 95, or (I believe) '94.


 BTW, my memory ain't the greatest either,so I could be wrong about th '96 thing. I Have a buddiy who has saved years and years of game Reg.s and I'm gonna give him a call later tonight.

[CedarPants]

sorry for the thread jack

No apology needed my friend, and you have my apologies if my post offended you.  Was not my intent.

[MtnMuley]

As I stated earlier, until there is a draw (which I am all in favor for), any bull hunting in this state is nothing but detrimental to our elk population.

[Ingwe]

I have only hunted the west side and I think the best thing the game department ever did was make it branch bull only. I have been hunting elk since about 1975 and the elk hunting is better now than ever. More bulls now than when you could shoot spikes.