121,117 pressure

[superdown]

How much more or less pressure do you think these two units will get now that the 4pt. min has been implemented? 

[Alan K]

I can't imagine it would be changing much, I mean how many people would change their mind if they couldn't shoot every 1.5 y/o they saw? Half the 1.5 y/o's will still probably start out at a tiny 3 point with an eye guard anyways. 

[Alan K]

And I'm admittedly not much of a whitetail guy, just for the last few years while I was in Idaho, but from what I picked up about whitetail bucks and their point progression this rule change won't change much of anything aside from save a few 1.5 y/o's and some bucks with horrible genetics.

[CedarPants]

The Blues went to spike only some time ago, but it looks like Woodstock down there during modern still

[superdown]

The Blues went to spike only some time ago, but it looks like Woodstock down there during modern still

  are you talking about elk?

[CedarPants]

The Blues went to spike only some time ago, but it looks like Woodstock down there during modern still

  are you talking about elk?

Correct.  More just meant as a way of saying I don't think point restrictions lead to drastic reductions in hunting pressure, no matter the species

[Pathfinder101]

I think it will lessen the pressure a little bit, but you are going to have a major poaching problem for the first few years.  How many *censored*s will not read the regs, go to their old tried-and-true hunting spot and blast the first forkhorn they see..?
I am thinking about hunting there opening weekend.  Not for deer, but for 10 bonus points...   I am just going to drive around and write down License plate #s and try to match up the idiots with the rigs...

[CedarPants]

I think it will lessen the pressure a little bit, but you are going to have a major poaching problem for the first few years.  How many *censored*s will not read the regs, go to their old tried-and-true hunting spot and blast the first forkhorn they see..?
I am thinking about hunting there opening weekend.  Not for deer, but for 10 bonus points...   I am just going to drive around and write down License plate #s and try to match up the idiots with the rigs...

 

Wanna ride together and share gas?  Sounds like we have the same line of thought and plan 

[superdown]

do you guy's think that the point restriction will eventually increase the over all number of animals doe and bucks?

[Pathfinder101]

do you guy's think that the point restriction will eventually increase the over all number of animals doe and bucks?

No, but it will increase the number of bucks and give a higher buck to doe ratio.  I think that the overall (buck and doe) carrying capacity of the units are determined more by the harshness of the winter than by hunter harvest.

[bearpaw]

By far, mother nature's hard winters make the greatest impact and we had two bad ones in a row. The goal with the point restriction in conjunction with an almost elimination of doe permits, is to help recover the herd.

Our currently higher than normal coyote, cougar, and bear numbers are an additional impact, there is little control over these factors because of current state politics and a relunctant WDFW.

By cutting human harvest on does and bucks, the hope is to recover the herd faster than if no action was taken to reduce human harvest. So I think we will see the herd recover faster than if no action was taken on reducing human opportunity.

[piledup]

Maybe not much of a difference for pressure wise but maybe hunter success might see a drop in those two units.

[buckcanyonlodge]

I have talked with Dana Base the game biologist for 121. He is VERY much against the 4 point restriction. So is Jim Nelson the head of deer management in the Olympia office. There is NO scientific base for changing to a 4 point restriction. The biologists agree it will do nothing to improve the state of the deer herd in our area. Ask a farmer, if he wants to increase his herd he does not kill or sell his cows. Letting the bull grow older does nothing to increase his herd. It was a political decision by the commissioners to ignore the biologists. There is one particular commissioner that is a trophy hunter and has pushed for this for all his term. The only thing this has done is to restrict the hunting opportunities for youth, disabled, and senior hunters in these units. Hunting rights are for all hunters, not just trophy hunters. Trophy hunting  is a personal choice, NOT a management tool. If it really helped bring back the deer population, I would be all for it. It does not. I personally do not shoot small bucks but I do not try to force my ideals on everyone else. This used to be an area someone could bring their kids and have a fairly good chance of success. We need our youth to carry on our hunting tradition. I  think the hunter numbers will be down as well as the success. Remember we are ALL in this together. I live in the heart of 121 and know of the process that got this regulation in place. We will not be silent at any more commissioners meetings!

[baldopepper]

I could'nt agree more !!!!  I  hunted most of my life in Utah and have watched the "zeal" for trophy units turn the deer hunt down there into a mess.  There are so many special units and quality hunts (and it's getting worse next year) that the old days of going on a family hunt are almost over.  Places that were open to the public have been leased out and closed off to the general public in an attempt to grow bigger trophys and virtually every biologist there will tell you that it has really nothing to do with game management.  Unit 121 has seen a decline in numbers over the past 10 years but maybe (lol) the 1000 anterless permits they've been giving out had something to do with that?  I hate to see Washington starting down the 4 point or better road because it just a matter of time until you'll see many of your favorite spots turn into "quality units" with limited permits and horn restrictions. I only say it half kiddingly when I suggest that you'll soon have to take the regulations to a lawyer to figure when, where and how you can hunt. guess I would'nt mind as much if I thought all of the new regulations were really put in place in the best interest of game management rather than "money" managment.

[muleyguy]

the 4 pt rule is actually going to do just the opposite of creating a trophy area;  its going to be detrimental to the trophy quality of these units;  these units receive tremendous amounts of hunting pressure;  now that you cannot shoot anything less then 4 pts,  ALL of this hunting pressure is now going to be focused on the mature bucks; 

A two week rut hunt with all the hunters focused on 4 pt or better bucks?   hmmm..........anybody have a guess what age class of bucks is going to get hammered???

we can all check back here in a year when the data comes out, but, my guess is that the harvest of 5 pt or better bucks out of these units at least DOUBLES this year;

the real problem will come in the 2013 hunting season when the full effect of two years of rut hunts with all the hunters focused on the older bucks. 

sure, overall deer harvest will be down tremendously, but, you are going to essentially wipe out the older bucks populations in the next two years; 

there won't be any more recruitment of bucks into the 4.5 yr old age class then there was before the 4 pt rule;  but, in the next two years there will be permanent damage down to the older age classes.

The average public got sold a bill of goods on this.......the population of older age class bucks on public ground will get hammered with the amount of hunting pressure this unit receives along with the two week rut hunt. 

The people that pushed this are private land owners and outfitters;  they will not see these devastating effects because the hunting pressure is highly regulated on these lands.

Not only will this rule not help the deer herds, it will hurt them because you are protecting the youngest age class instead of the older age classes;  over a few years the dominant age class will become 1.5 yr old bucks;  they will then do the majority of the breeding;  mother nature sets it up for older age class bucks to do the breeding for a reason......lots of data to show that does bred by older bucks have more fit fawns;  so, now we are going to have the equivalent of a bunch of 12 yr old boys doing the breeding.

The first casualty of the 4 pt rule will be the dramatic shortening or elimination of the two week rut hunt by 2013 as it becomes obvious the mature bucks are getting hammered.