Twisp family denies killing gray wolves - Wenatchee World

[boneaddict]

AND.....that cow photo is from a WHOLE different pack than the lookout pack but they refuse to believe that.  What a CROCK  Honestly I'd like to know how many wolves THAT BIOLOGIST has seen.   Something tells me he doesn't get out in the woods that much.   

[villageidiot]

I"ve heard that "bury your animals" story a lot.   Has anybody tried to get off the plowed road with a tractor in the winter?  The snow is 2 to 3 foot deep and then try and dig through the frozen ground.  I'ts impossible.   Try to dig a hole with a front end loader on a tractor.  You'll be a half a day digging a hole big enough for a cow.  Most farmers I know have junker tractors that would be a major job to dig a hole that big without breaking the old tractor down.  What's wrong with letting the crows and eagles clean it up?  Seems like a top notch environmentally friendly way to support the bird population.

[reggart]

Guys, there is no point in sitting around bitching about what the feds aren't admitting to.  The state of Washington is one heck of a lot more liberal than Idaho and they pulled the same crap over there, so why the heck should you waste your time acting surprised about it here in Washington?  It is difficult to believe the truth when it is so blatant and in your face.  The real deal is this; they want to stop big game hunting and they want to do it with Canadian Grey Wolf introduction, to believe anything other than that is just naiive.  This has been the strategy from the beginning and it is working better than they ever imagined.  Bottom line is you think you have it bad now because our tax funded state and federal representatives aren't admitting the truth over a handful of packs but we are just in the beginning stages of the most devasting destruction of our Washington big game herds.  Just wait, I give you 5 more years and you will look back on these days with memories of "how good the hunting used to be".  Big game hunting in the lower 48 will be nothing more than tales and legends that we tell our grandchildren.  I watched and witnessed the Idaho catastrophe since the mid 1990's.  The clearwater drainage elk herds were world renowned and for generations those herds have fed the families of thousands of people.  I watched them literally disappear in less than 10 years.  The numbers don't lie guys.  Idaho went from a one tag means you can hunt all seasons from September through November to a choose your weapon 2-3 weeks season and now they are finally at a point where they are forced to remove antlerless harvests from regular over the counter tag options. 

You talk to any Idaho Fish and Game representative and they will tell you they are just as pissed as we are.  But don't believe their crap, they were aware of it and in on it from the beginning, all you have to do is read the old newspaper clippings.  I guarantee you the WDFW guys will be telling you in 5 years that it was the feds that did this to us but don't forget the truth, the WDFW are welcoming these alien land sharks from Canada with open arms.  Don't ever believe for one second that some book reading desk jockey who spends 10% of their time actually walking through the woods while the remainder of their time is spent in their new tax funded vehicles, helicopters and in their cushy offices has a better understanding of what our ecosystems need than a wiry old hunter who spends every available minute out in the wild.   They just don't get it guys and they play by a different set of rules than you do.

Talk to your family and friends in Idaho and Montana, they will tell you how bad it is going to get.  Many of them are still in shock and disbelief that it happened right in front of their eyes.

[danderson]

The comment from the wolf lover stated that the days of bone yards are gone, couldn't be further from the truth,
spoken like a true city feller, shows just how missinformed they really are, just ask the Washington State DOT were all the road  kills end up

[boneaddict]

I"ve heard that "bury your animals" story a lot.   Has anybody tried to get off the plowed road with a tractor in the winter?  The snow is 2 to 3 foot deep and then try and dig through the frozen ground.  I'ts impossible.   Try to dig a hole with a front end loader on a tractor.  You'll be a half a day digging a hole big enough for a cow.  Most farmers I know have junker tractors that would be a major job to dig a hole that big without breaking the old tractor down.  What's wrong with letting the crows and eagles clean it up?  Seems like a top notch environmentally friendly way to support the bird population.

You ahve to remember that this is coming from a guy that suggested that range animals (cattle) were going to all be protected by shepherds and dogs or something along those lines in another thread.    I have a feeling he knows just about as much about cattle as he does wolves. 

[humanure]

I don't think i could raise a bunch of huge German Shepherds in an apartment/city/suburb. The 5 acres i live on in the woods barely suffices.

As far as my suggestion, hey, at least I try to come up with a solution. Standing around bitching with your thumb up your ass gets you nowhere. It's called being proactive and thinking with positive attitude. If you let negativity get to you, then there' never will be a solution. Keep your head up and move forward. Nothing stays gold, and the seasons are always changing. Nothing is definite. I'm for wolves, but even i see the major flaws being made by the feds just like you do. They shouldn't shrug off your reports and think you guys will forget about it. Whether they are acknowledging to the public the actual wolf numbers, eh, I can see why they would. The government is known for it's control on information.

[humanure]

I"ve heard that "bury your animals" story a lot.   Has anybody tried to get off the plowed road with a tractor in the winter?  The snow is 2 to 3 foot deep and then try and dig through the frozen ground.  I'ts impossible.   Try to dig a hole with a front end loader on a tractor.  You'll be a half a day digging a hole big enough for a cow.  Most farmers I know have junker tractors that would be a major job to dig a hole that big without breaking the old tractor down.  What's wrong with letting the crows and eagles clean it up?  Seems like a top notch environmentally friendly way to support the bird population.

You ahve to remember that this is coming from a guy that suggested that range animals (cattle) were going to all be protected by shepherds and dogs or something along those lines in another thread.    I have a feeling he knows just about as much about cattle as he does wolves.

being that i volunteer for a farm, yes, i do know alittle bit about cattle. And my uncle owns a giant cattle farm in Tulare, CA, so I have been around it.

As far as protection, again, just a proactive suggestion. It's would hurt to hire shepherds and have livestock guardian dogs, now would it? Nothing is failsafe, but everything is worth giving a try.

[boneaddict]

One of the biggest conflicts with as much emotion as possible put aside Humanure is that they are not listening to those that are effected.  Policy is being made by folks that haven't a clue about ecosystems, niches, rural america etc.   It is being rammed down peoples throats, and you know what, they are going to regurgitate it right back on them.    Unfortanately an agenda is doing A LOT of collateral damage.   

[humanure]

To a degree, you make some points. But we do pay those people to do a job, and I like to give them some benefit of the doubt, regardless of my opinion on the job and results we are able to see.

I have voiced to the department many times that the way they are treating the farming community and the cold shoulder attitude is only going to cause more resentment. I even voiced this in a testimony that they need to take the opposition alot more seriously and be more willing to work with them.

[humanure]

Also, i looked into what it takes to work for the department. You DO have to know about ecosystems and wildlife biology to be one of them. They don't just hire anybody, their requirements are quite stringent and high.

[boneaddict]

So far I am not impressed.   Maybe its all booklearned      Their cloak and dagger or shrug approach might add to their ignorance or appearance of.    One of the biologists called to interview my father and he admitted that he hadn't seen the wolves yet and he had been studying them for two years.  My Dad thought that was funny as he was watching 3 or so at the time he was talking to the biologist on the phone.     Stuff like that adds little to my faith.   

[woodman]

One of the biggest conflicts with as much emotion as possible put aside Humanure is that they are not listening to those that are effected.  Policy is being made by folks that haven't a clue about ecosystems, niches, rural america etc.   It is being rammed down peoples throats, and you know what, they are going to regurgitate it right back on them.    Unfortanately an agenda is doing A LOT of collateral damage.   

boneaddict, I agree with what you are saying here. I truly believe that government gets away with many things because there is not direct instant impact on a vast majority of people when it wants to make laws or regulations. They make a argument that sounds good on the surface such as feel good words. Later when  people encounter some regulation that seems so wrong because now they see the impact that it actually has, it is too late. I have always felt that if people encountered the effects of what truly is happening with new regulations at the same time, government could not slide things into place without a huge majority outcry.

[boneaddict]

sort of like cats snatching kids out of the city park, or coons infiltrating and overrunning your garage.   Who are they going to call to take care of it.  That was a single LARGE blow and that is like comparing Hiroshima to the possible damage one of todays Nuclear warheads compared to what the wolves are doing or are going to do   

[JimmyHoffa]

Also, i looked into what it takes to work for the department. You DO have to know about ecosystems and wildlife biology to be one of them. They don't just hire anybody, their requirements are quite stringent and high.

How much of their hiring is based off degree and how much on experience?  Someone can be good at test taking and get a degree...and know the theory of ecosystems; but need to burn boot leather to actually know what's going on...or have someone that is feed them good data.

[humanure]

Also, i looked into what it takes to work for the department. You DO have to know about ecosystems and wildlife biology to be one of them. They don't just hire anybody, their requirements are quite stringent and high.

How much of their hiring is based off degree and how much on experience?  Someone can be good at test taking and get a degree...and know the theory of ecosystems; but need to burn boot leather to actually know what's going on...or have someone that is feed them good data.

I can't really say, because what it takes is so daunting that I gave up on any idea of joining and didn't read it all. I would imagine field experience would be required.

No one party is completely right or wrong. To differing degree's, we all have our heads up our ass' a bit, and no one side will completely win. Thats the hard truth of it all. The best we can do is try to work together, no matter how dim the future looks. As much as you guys feel resentment towards the department and environmentalist crack-pots, the other side throws back just the same kind of negative attitude, but that doesn't deter me from trying to work and find solutions. I've received death threats and the coldest of shoulders from the opposition, but hey, can't win em all, right? For me this whole time of my involvement, if you think positive, you will feel positive. That helps you to work even harder than before on reaching your goal. Even if i disagree with ya'll, I suggest the same to you to reach your success.