Twisp family denies killing gray wolves - Wenatchee World

[humanure]

sort of like cats snatching kids out of the city park, or coons infiltrating and overrunning your garage.   Who are they going to call to take care of it.  That was a single LARGE blow and that is like comparing Hiroshima to the possible damage one of todays Nuclear warheads compared to what the wolves are doing or are going to do

Uh, sorry if i don't understand, but could you elaborate?

[Tbar]

Humanure you are being deceptive to say the least. I would bet you have had direct interaction with some of the emotion driven bios in this state through the wolf working group.  I would even say some are both book smart (like you seem to be sometimes) and they know the ecosystem. That being said they have a 100 percent pro wolf agenda and goal. I have never been big on conspiracy theories but the writing is on the wall and its not pretty. There has been conflict and deception within the wdfw itself.
Now my two cents on mr. White, I don't know him personally but have a ton of respect for him. I have family in the Methow and they know the man personally, his respect is earned before and after this case.

[humanure]

I voice my opinion on the same stages as everyone else. I do not know any of the bio's and have no behind the scenes contact with anyone official. My voice is public, not private. I believe that it is my criticism of them that would keep me at arm's length with them even if i did try to edge my way in with them. Hell, I bet they read what I say here and put me in the catagory as someone to avoid association with, being that I criticize more than half of the current wolf plan.

[humanure]

Uh, wolf working group??? What/who exactly is that?

[dscubame]

I would deny it too.  And still would shoot every wolf I could.  And coyote too.  Although I have a tougher time rationalizing the senseless coyote killing but continue to be covinced they are ruthless so see some sense in it every time I take one out.

[boneaddict]

I was referring to the ban on trapping and hound hunting, which essentially came from King county in the initiative process from people who really have no clue what either is(but rammed it down everyone elses throat). Wildlife management by popular opinion versus fact.    They voted and many started to suffer the consequences.  That was a drop in the bucket compared to what this wolf project will do.   

[Moose22]

I was referring to the ban on trapping and hound hunting, which essentially came from King county in the initiative process from people who really have no clue what either is(but rammed it down everyone elses throat). Wildlife management by popular opinion versus fact.    They voted and many started to suffer the consequences.  That was a drop in the bucket compared to what this wolf project will do.

Bone, you are so right. It is not going to take long for the ramifications to take effect with the wolf project.

[Special T]

I voice my opinion on the same stages as everyone else. I do not know any of the bio's and have no behind the scenes contact with anyone official. My voice is public, not private. I believe that it is my criticism of them that would keep me at arm's length with them even if i did try to edge my way in with them. Hell, I bet they read what I say here and put me in the catagory as someone to avoid association with, being that I criticize more than half of the current wolf plan.

Can you list and clarify your objections to the current wolf plan? Apparently i have not paid close enough attention to see them.

[humanure]

I feel 15 breeding pairs is too high.

Being 'hands off' about wolves populating one area faster than the rest is stupid. If we have to go with their plan, let's get this *censored*ing timeline started, which won't start until all proposed area's have reached their breeding pair goal.

The proposed land-bride idea is laughable at best. It better be a *censored* huge bridge if that may be.

There's other critiques but I am tired from work and don't feel like going over the whole plan and what i feel is wrong.

[humanure]

Also, quit saying 'introducing wolves into WA'. The wolves have returned and hunted here for at least 30 years. Even select hunters and some farmers know that.

[reggart]

Humanare,
You need to study up a little on the endangered species act.  If you did your homework you would find that you cannot try to introduce an experimental non essential species until you first determine there is not an existing native population of the species.  So if what your saying is true then the feds broke the law day one when they introduced those aliens into the Kelly Creek drainage, which means these idiots that you support didn't even follow their own rules.  By the way, another point I will debate is that the Canadian Grey Wolf is not a reintroduction, as commonly referred, it was an introduction as stated above.  The original wolf species in the Pacific Northwest was a much smaller wolf that the locals called a brush wolf (not to be confused with the midwest or back east brush wolf which is the same as a coyote) and due to the nature of the grey wolf to quickly eradicate any local canine population to eliminate the competition, it is probably safe to say the original Brush Wolf is now truly extinct.

[humanure]

But, BUT! Canadian Gray wolves have traveled back and forth over the border for who know how long, as did the Cascades Mountain/Brush wolf into Canadian territory. Infact, some believe that the once that reside in, over and around the border have the geneology of both subspecies due to interbreeding between the two sub-species. You have to remember, wolves and other wildlife do not recognize borders. It's the same as Canadian Gray's and southern Red wolves sharing territory in the northeastern states. In both cases, the sub-species of the south were exterminated and the northers broadened their territories without conflict. It's awefully common sensical and a fact that for some reason keeps getting swept under the rug.

And BTW, people keep accusing the state of planting wolves, but have yet to present evidence when asked for it. Did I miss something and it's been substantiated? Or is it still just an accusation? I've heard about a certain lumber company illegally releasing wolves to cut down ungulates eating their sapling they depend on to harvest later, but evidence of that has yet to surface.

[Special T]

Humanure, you just stated my biggest complaint.

"But, BUT! Canadian Gray wolves have traveled back and forth over the border, as did the Cascades Mountain/Brush wolf. You have to remember, wolves and other wildlife do not recognize borders. It's the same as Canadian Gray's and southern Red wolves sharing territory in the northeastern states. In both cases, the sub-species of the south were exterminated and the northers broadened their territories without conflict. It's awefully common sensical and a fact that for some reason keeps getting swept under the rug."

Wolves have been in this state over the last 30 years. There are lots of sitings that have documented in the newspapers. Maybe not concrete proof, but like you said  wolves don't know borders.   So how can they be here and endangered at the same time?
The other conundrum  is the lack of importance of subspecies. Canadian grey wolves are not the same as native timer wolves.  We hunters have heard that subspecies are not important, but it is... It seems its only important for salmon and Red wolves but not Timber wolves... 

Those 2 issues tear large holes in the need for Gray wolves and uses ESA's own logic...  One of the many reasons i think this whole thing is BS.

[humanure]

It's a catch-22, I'll give you that one.

[Special T]

A catch 22 means damned if you do damned if you don't.  If the feds or state want to use a basis for the argument For wolves they should not be able to use it selectively.