High Buck Drop camp opinions requested

[Lunatic Fringe]

I am just beginning the plans for a high buck drop camp for Fall 2012.  I have always wanted to do a good big game hunt with my dad, but we just haven't been able to make it work as of yet.  Now he's getting into his mid 70's and I'm concerned that if I don't do it soon he may not physically be able.  I've been looking into a horseback drop camp either in the pasayton or Okanogan wildernesses.  Does anyone have any recommended areas or outfitters.  I'm usually a DIY hunter but I don't have horses and that's the only way i'm going to get my dad way back into the back country.  I don't really want a guide.  I'm just looking for an outfitter to take us in, give us the lay of the land, and some possible good areas to concentrate on and then leave us to it.   I'll be doing lots of research over the next year, but I thought I'd ask for opinions to narrow down my options. 

[AlpineMuley]

Check out icicle creek outfitters.  I have never hunted with them, but meet a few on the trail head.  The guys seemed pretty cool.

[MtnMuley]

North Cacsade Safari.  I don't believe Icicle Ck hunts there.  Also, the "Okanogan Wilderness" you're referring to is where?  Are you meaning solely the Pasayten?

[huntnfmly]

icicle outfitters is a great outfit my girls and myself have gone out with them a couple times not drop camps but guided hunts they are great people
jim

[h20hunter]

This could be a great thread. Keep us posted as you go along and take lots of pics when you are up there. Do it now while you both are able. You can't get the time back.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Really when I say okanogan I'm not sure what area I'm talking about.  I've got a buddy that would also like to do this hunt and he suggested the Pasayton.  I know lots of area to cover.  I've always heard of decent bucks coming from areas in the Okanogans, but I understand that could be a hundred mile radius.  I'm not a newbie to hunting but scouting will be limited if there is a 20 mile pack in and out.  I only have so much money and time.  I usually hunt within 5 miles of the truck and really want to get in the backwoods away from people, see some more beautifull country and maybe find a nice migratory muley for my dad, myself and a buddy or two.  I'm really in the beginning stages of my planning for this trip.  I need to check the WDFW critter numbers for different units to narrow some things down.  I've been to the sportmans show and collected information from some of the outfitters and talked to a few, but probably didn't have enough knowledge to ask all the right questions.  Any suggestions or info is appreciated.  And I know how everyone on here likes pictures.  I'll make sure and take lots of the scouting trips and the hunt etc.

[jackelope]

If you want to do the high hunt in mid September you need to be in a wilderness area. The Pasayten, Alpine Lakes wilderness, Henry M Jackson wilderness, Glacier Peak wilderness, etc.

When you say high buck we think the early high hunt in the wilderness areas.

[Lunatic Fringe]

I'm still not sure what would be better.  The high buck in September or the regular modern firearm season.  September would be better weather but we might see more activity in October.  I will probably do a 7-10 day hunt to maximize our chances.  Would it be better to go in October for the Muley migration?

[buckfvr]

You wont see a migration in october......I did a drop camp many years ago...in October, and we had mostly fog....and sleet.  You will have to talk an outfitter into a custom hunt, as most use established camps, ones they use year after year, and I seriously doubt many of them go 20 miles one way.   Many of them put several camps into the same area, and if you hunt a mile from camp, you may run into a hunter from another one of their camps. 

I also know several who have done Pasayten in Sept.   SUccess rates are low, and killing an animal must be low on your list, the overall experience and camping much higher.  I  havent kept up on Okanogan mule deer, but it used to be, if you could get away from others, high  up in the Twisp River drainage, someone in camp would get a nice buck. 

[GHETTO GUIDE]

Great topic, keep asking questions and doing your research.  You will end up on the trip of a lifetime w/ your dad and have great memories and fun.     

[Goomsba]

North Cacsade Safari.  I don't believe Icicle Ck hunts there.  Also, the "Okanogan Wilderness" you're referring to is where?  Are you meaning solely the Pasayten?

I'd second North Cascade Safari   Ryan's a good guy and knows his stuff

[Bean Counter]

Good for you. way to be grateful and realize what you have    I've heard those outfitters book full pretty early so don't delay!

This could be a great thread. Keep us posted as you go along and take lots of pics when you are up there. Do it now while you both are able. You can't get the time back.

+1. i will never have that kind of dad. Cash is tight for me right now but I would pay anything to have that kind of an experience.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Thanks all,
I was looking over some maps with a buddy last night and there is just so much area to cover I'm going to definitly have to talk to an outfitter to figure out what maps to concentrate on.  If the Pasayton doesn't do good early in the year how about October?  Methow has a good reputation but I'm not sure if it's early or late.  I've also heard good things about the Sawtooth.  I didn't think about the Twisp area.  I'll look into that as well.

One other thing I will have to take into account is my dad is no mountain goat.  Are any of these areas Steeper and more rugged then others?

[MtnMuley]

The comment about not seeing a migrator in October in the high country, is untrue.

[buckfvr]

You wont see a migration, as in they wont in all likely hood be migrating en mass.....but you will see the ones that migrate.  I didnt say you wont see a migrator.  Unless there is a poor browse condition or an early heavy snowfall in the back country,  imo  october is early for actual migration.  And Ill add, not all areas are the same anyway........

[boneaddict]

I'd suggest the September high hunt for weather.  MOST of the drop camp hunts in the Pasayten are only accesible during the high hunt and not a general season hunt.   If you are looking for the experience, the high buck hunt can't be beat.  It varies alot with temps from 100's to snowing/blizzard in September, sometimes strangely enough from day to day.  That sort of hunt in the later fall can take its toll even on a serious hunter/woodsman.    As for quality deer....th high hunt can be an awesome experience, but not necessarily a hunt with high percentages of harvest.  If you are looking for a "sure thing" then you need to look out of state IMO.  There are several outfitters in the valley with quality hunts.  Many of their names will no doubt show up in this thread.  The several outfits that I know of are all of good people.  If you are unaware of what a drop camp consists of, there are a couple folks on here, Like Idabooner who could probably answer your questions for you as he used to wrangle for one of the local outfitters, specifically in the Pasayten.

[bobcat]

One other thing I will have to take into account is my dad is no mountain goat.  Are any of these areas Steeper and more rugged then others?

For the easiest terrain, you might try the eastern side of the Pasayten. You'll still need to do plenty of walking, but it's not all straight up and down like the other areas. My brother and I did a drop camp with Cascade Wilderness Outfitters (Steve Darwood) in 2005 and had a good time. They do put quite a few camps all in the same general area though, so don't expect to have it all to yourself.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Upon researching the critter counts for the Okanogans, Pasayton, and the Chelan area it does look like Okanogan East has the most deer.  I'm going to have to look really serious at that unit. 

I'm having a hard time determining which units comprise the different high buck wilderness zones.  Is the Okanogan East unit part of the September High buck hunt or just open for October, looks like October to me?

[jackelope]

The high hunt is not based on GMU boundaries, it's based on Wilderness boundary lines. If it's not in a wilderness area, it's not part of the high hunt. There's GMU's that have some land in the wilderness and some not in the wilderness, only that part of the unit in the wilderness areas are open.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Jackalope,
I think I'm seeing that.  The Okanogan East would be an October only hunt.  It's hard to get any kind of critter counts for anything other than a GMU or a full PMU.  I guess I'm trying to associate the data I'm seeing by GMU with the wilderness areas to narrow down a good general location for a September hunt, while keeping the option open for the October hunt.  Not always easy to extrapolate the data.

[bobcat]

The Pasayten Wilderness is entirely within the Pasayten GMU (203.) I believe the Clark GMU (244) is made up entirely of the Glacier Peak Wilderness. This wilderness is also within the Cascade GMU (450) but that would be on the west side of the Pacific Crest trail. Similarly, the Alpine GMU (249) is the Alpine Lakes Wilderness east of the Pacific Crest trail. The part of that wilderness on the west side is in the Snoqualmie GMU (460).
 
So for what you're looking for, you'd want to look at statistics for GMU's 203, 244, and 249.

[muleracks2]

I wouldn't put too much faith in the wdfw harvest reports for the High Hunt.  Many of the hunters that get counted or report in are only hunting near the trailheads; those who pack in have a much higher harvest rate.  At least that is true in the Clark GMU 244 and Alpine GMU 244 and probably true in the Pasayten.
The Pasayten Wilderness is divided into regions by the outfitters so the:
Harts Pass area is www.earlywintersoutfitting.com
Tatoosh Buttes area is www.altalake.com (Sawtooth Outfitters)
Remmel Lakes area is www.methow.com/c_w_outfitters (Cascade Wilderness Outfitters)
Little farther east and Lake Chelan Rec. Area is www.northcascadesafaris.com

It is true that some of the outfitters book up early; especially for the Sept. 15-25 High Hunt.  For the pack in October drop camps the outfitters in Okanogan offer Sawtooth Wilderness and Lake Chelan Rec. Area hunts both guided and drop camps.  Most outfitters are not that busy packing camps in October.  Icicle Outfitters & Guides, south of Lake Chelan is fully booked for the High Hunt but could add a drop camp or two during the General Season.

[Biggerhammer]

The comment about not seeing a migrator in October in the high country, is untrue.

I completely agree, it made me laugh. No migrating deer, I'm still laughing.

[elkaholic123]

You wont see a migration,

The comment about not seeing a migrator in October in the high country, is untrue.

I completely agree, it made me laugh. No migrating deer, I'm still laughing.

He said migration! FWIW

[Biggerhammer]

Is there really a difference? Now we are talking #No's   It all depends on when the snow hits the ground, sometimes it's even as early as the first real frost.

[buckfvr]

Have your laugh.....and someday you will even ( maybe ) learn to understand what you read.

[muleracks2]

We see evidence of the mule deer migration after the first good snow; often in late September.  The Entiat Valley looks like a herd of sheep have gone down the trails; mostly does, fawns and young bucks; mature bucks tend to hang back.  This is in the backcountry way before they reach the roaded areas.  They probably stop as soon as they get out of the snow.  In our country (Chelan County) we worry about a heavy snow in October because an early migration would trigger a blood bath in the open country left by the fires.  We would rather see a more controlled harvest by permit hunters.
Okanogan is less dependent on the migration because of there whitetail and nonmigratory mule deer.

[Biggerhammer]

Bingo! Muleracks2... I've hunted the Entiat my life. It's my back yard .

[JimmyHoffa]

Muleracks2, I've heard pretty much what you said.  That it depends on snow level and how it obscures food.  That the does will start bringing the fawns/yearlings down when the ground forage is covered at about 3-4 inches for more than a few days.  The bucks hold out longer...maybe a foot of snow before they tire of eating buds only.  If the snow isn't too deep for the bucks, then the rut will bring them down to the does.  I heard this for muleys, but it seems to hold for blacktails too.  There was a blacktail doe/fawn I had been seeing a lot around 6,000 feet for the summer and up until Oct 17th last year.  Then the first snow came and I next found them at about 3400 feet a couple days later.  There were some more snow storms and eventually the bucks finally showed up around Oct 29th.

[MtnMuley]

We're not talking migration into the Entiat. We're talking high country. Big difference.

[jackelope]

The other thing ot remember...it's been posted on here many times before. This hunt is about the experience, the time in the high country and you should not expect to see a lot of deer. The buck you see could be the buck of a lifetime, but there won't be many. You can study the herd #'s all you want, but the bottom line is you're not going to see a ton of deer during the high hunt. Go for the country, the scenery, the experience of it all and most of all, the time with your dad. Don't worry about herd counts.
 

[kbyers]

  

well said jackelope

[boneaddict]

Exactly. 

[grundy53]

The comment about not seeing a migrator in October in the high country, is untrue.

I completely agree, it made me laugh. No migrating deer, I'm still laughing.

You guys can say what you want, but most years, there won't be a true migration in October. Go hang out in the Entiat and wait for those migrators to show up in general season. Good luck.

Except he is talking about hunting the high country. Which is where the migrators come from. So they would be Migratory deer. They just are on the part of the Migration where they are in the high country. He isn't hunting the Entiat, he will be hunting the wilderness.

[Lunatic Fringe]

I'm sure I'll have a great experience wherever we decide to go, but I'm not planning a high priced camping trip.  I want to give myself the best shot at both worlds.  If after all is said an done, we don't get any bucks then so be it.  I will still be happy, but in the planning stages why not try for the best.  That's my opinion. 

This weekend I was doing some more research and I've been told that there are more migratory deer moving through the glacier peak wildlife areas these days than maybe some of the others.  Has anyone else heard anything in regard to this?  I'm sure the patterns must change a little from year to year.

[Miles]

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/board,3.0.html

[jackelope]

I'm sure I'll have a great experience wherever we decide to go, but I'm not planning a high priced camping trip.  I want to give myself the best shot at both worlds.  If after all is said an done, we don't get any bucks then so be it.  I will still be happy, but in the planning stages why not try for the best.  That's my opinion. 

Just making sure you know what you're in for more than anything....
Good luck with your hunt.. Hopefully you have a good time.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Thanks Jackalope,
I hear and understand what you and many others are saying about the experience being more important than the killing.  I will agree with you.  What you guys are saying is not lost on me.  I get a true emotional and spiritual recharge when I'm in the woods.  Every close encounter makes life worth living.  If we don't get any animals it won't take anything away from the trip.  But if I'm going to go to all the effort of planning a big trip like this I'm going to do my best to find animals.   I appreciate all advice.

[boneaddict]

But if I'm going to go to all the effort of planning a big trip like this I'm going to do my best to find animals.

Honestly you should think of out of state then.  Its extremely hit and miss even for a seasoned vet in the wilderness hunts.

[steen]

I've used Steve Darwood to pack in our gear for summer horseback riding and they do a great job.  Not alot of deer and not many big ones but you could get a 175 class buck and if you are lucky maybe bigger.  My husband used Isicle Outfitters one year way back and 3 out of 4 hunters took 2 year old bucks.  They had a great time and good service, with the outfitter checking on them every couple days or so to pack out their meat.  I think these hunts are as much about the experience and views as they are the hunt.  We rode horse up in the Pasayten for a week (30 hours of riding) and had a blast.  Can't wait to go again next year if all goes well.  You will have an experience of a lifetime whether or not you take an animal.

[vandeman17]

I wanted to bring this thread back to life as it is getting closer to the time when we will start planning our hunts. I have considered drop hunts in a few hunts but never really thought about one in Washington until now. This is a very useful thread!

[hillbillyhunting]

Thanks Jackalope,
I hear and understand what you and many others are saying about the experience being more important than the killing.  I will agree with you.  What you guys are saying is not lost on me.  I get a true emotional and spiritual recharge when I'm in the woods.  Every close encounter makes life worth living.  If we don't get any animals it won't take anything away from the trip.  But if I'm going to go to all the effort of planning a big trip like this I'm going to do my best to find animals.   I appreciate all advice.

   If you really want to get away from people and enjoy the high county then I suggest you go up in August with a camera.  My hunting partner and I have spent the past 6 years in 4 different wilderness areas trying to find a place that holds trophy animals and is unnoticed by other people.  It is almost impossible to get away from the people.  One year we even hiked in over 20 miles on a trail with lots of blow-downs and still had people up there.  Our first year we were after a 30" wide 3x3 and on the way up there were tons of people and everyone was talking about that buck    Additionally, a lot of the people up there do not know how to hunt the high county.  We consistently see people blowing up areas we have scouted that hold very nice deer.  As soon as Sept comes around the deer know it!  As soon as one person blindly walks through the trophy buck's home... they are on lockdown.  Anyways, it is tough.  You have to outsmart the other hunters.  I switched to archery and spent 9 days up in the high country this season and didnt see another person.  I didnt shoot an animal but had lots of excitement and got my much needed "spiritual recharge". 

[sirmissalot]

   If you really want to get away from people and enjoy the high county then I suggest you go up in August with a camera.  My hunting partner and I have spent the past 6 years in 4 different wilderness areas trying to find a place that holds trophy animals and is unnoticed by other people.  It is almost impossible to get away from the people.  One year we even hiked in over 20 miles on a trail with lots of blow-downs and still had people up there.  Our first year we were after a 30" wide 3x3 and on the way up there were tons of people and everyone was talking about that buck    Additionally, a lot of the people up there do not know how to hunt the high county.  We consistently see people blowing up areas we have scouted that hold very nice deer.  As soon as Sept comes around the deer know it!  As soon as one person blindly walks through the trophy buck's home... they are on lockdown.  Anyways, it is tough.  You have to outsmart the other hunters.  I switched to archery and spent 9 days up in the high country this season and didnt see another person.  I didnt shoot an animal but had lots of excitement and got my much needed "spiritual recharge".

I know just what you mean. I even had some granola munchers last year yelling and screaming at me across a canyon because they saw I was a hunter.  That group of young guys were lucky they didn't get more than just an earful.

For the most part its not too difficult for me to get away from other hunters, but away from other people in general can be difficult at times.

[Bean Counter]

... I know just what you mean. I evenhad some granola munchers lastyear yelling and screamingatmeacrossa

canyon because they saw I was a hunter.

Unbelievable! yelling at a man with a gun.... For no personal  reason. Wow

[BENCHLEG]

hey beancounter, if we hunt with potato guns , we will give them what they wan;t  . right

[hillbillyhunting]

... I know just what you mean. I evenhad some granola munchers lastyear yelling and screamingatmeacrossa

canyon because they saw I was a hunter.

Unbelievable! yelling at a man with a gun.... For no personal  reason. Wow

I had a group of them come up to a lake near our camp one year at about mid day.  They started yelling dont shoot us we are not bears!!  It was the year that young boy shot that lady in the highcountry.  We were pissed!  Then they got naked and started skinny dipping!  We were pretty much on break because it was so warm and sunny but we were sooooo wishing a bear would just walk out in the meadow so we could shoot it in front of them.  We absolutely did not want to shoot a bear, but had tags and were seeing about 4-5 a day without looking for them.   Thought it would be worth packing the bear that far if we were able to shoot it right in front of them.