Non-toxic shot for pheasants on release sites?

[3dvapor]

I hunt a release sight in woodland that is private property that the guy let's the state release birds on the new law requires us to use steel on his property as well even though he's personally against it   what a croc of crap what am I supposed to do on the eastside for quail and chucker how am I supposed to afford shells to even hunt.  This is a bad deal for any upland bird hunter.

[bobcat]

Steel shot shells are not that expensive anymore. You can get them for the same, or just a little more, than the cost of lead. I don't think it's that big of a deal. And I sure don't think it's a conspiracy. 

[Andrew]

Page 20 of last year's regs state that starting the 2011 season the 'X' areas require non toxic shot.  It doesn't say anything about all state areas.  Without seeing the new regs I can only state what last years are.  I've been hunting with my grandfather's 16...you don't have to tell me how expensive shells are!  I started reloading cause I hate spending 9-10 bucks on a box of trap rounds. 

I think what pisses me off are the shell mfr. who are selling these rounds for 20-30 bucks for a box of 10!  give me a break the metal can't be that much more expensive...they're probably the ones paying the lobbiests; not the cheap, anti-hunting morons.

[bobcat]

It's definitely not required on all state land. It might be all pheasant release sites. I know it's required for the first time this year on the Scatter Creek Wildlife Area.

[JLS]

I hunt a release sight in woodland that is private property that the guy let's the state release birds on the new law requires us to use steel on his property as well even though he's personally against it   what a croc of crap what am I supposed to do on the eastside for quail and chucker how am I supposed to afford shells to even hunt.  This is a bad deal for any upland bird hunter.

Take a chill pill.  This is only for designated release sites.  It is not all state land, WDFW land, or anything else you want to confuse it with.  These designated release sites are supposed to be posted.  Look online and you might find maps of them.

[bobcat]

Nontoxic Shot
 WDFW Fact Sheet
 March 25, 2011 HUNTERS: New Regulations  effective January 1, 2011
To protect other wildlife species including waterfowl and raptors nontoxic shot is required for ALL upland bird hunting on ALL pheasant release sites STATEWIDE.
Many US Fish and Wildlife Service refuges also require the  use of nontoxic shot.  See specific refuge rules.
 

Nontoxic shot required for ALL sites statewide   Printable  version of map:  Color  |  B&W For a complete listing of Pheasant Release sites and maps: Western  Washington Pheasant Release Program Eastern Washington Pheasant Enhancement Program Nontoxic shot will be required for bird hunting  (pheasant, quail, chukar, gray partridge, mourning doves and band-tailed  pigeons) on all pheasant release areas, statewide. It will be  unlawful to possess shot (either in shotshells or as loose shot for  muzzleloading), other than nontoxic shot, when hunting for upland game birds  (pheasant, quail, chukar, and gray partridge), mourning doves, band-tailed  pigeons, on all areas where pheasants are released by WDFW. Violations bring a mandatory $1,000 fine and loss of  small game hunting privileges for two years. PROBLEMS WITH LEAD SHOT Problems with the use  of lead shot were discovered by extensive testing during the 1970s and 1980s.  This resulted in a phasing out of lead shot as an allowable waterfowl load from  1986 to 1991. Waterfowl can die if they eat even very small amounts of spent  lead shot. Swans are the most visible evidence of lead poisoning, due to their  habit of feeding deep within wetlands that have lead pellets still remaining from past hunting seasons. Lead-poisoned ducks and other birds carrying embedded lead shot also are known to cause poisoning in other species. For  example, bald eagles and other raptors can be poisoned by feeding on other  wildlife carrying or containing lead shot. Identifying problem areas. Through monitoring, problems with lead shot have been discovered in some  western Washington pheasant-release sites that also are waterfowl feeding  areas. For example, soil sampling at Skagit Wildlife Area yielded an estimated  6.8 tons of lead. Sampling lead pellet densities in soil and waterfowl tissues  is considered by wildlife and habitat biologists to be the best way to identify  problem areas, but these methods are labor intensive, expensive and sometimes  difficult to interpret. Not all sites present potential problems. However, the  above sites were converted to nontoxic shot use based on a high potential for  ingestion of lead by wildlife; for example, where waterfowl use sheet water or  flooded grain fields. Hunter concerns about nontoxic shot. Hunters have voiced concerns about cost, effectiveness and  shotgun barrel damage in using nontoxic shot. This is what we know about these  areas of concern:   Cost: Alternatives to lead shot are more expensive -- particularly newer alternatives, which can cost more than $2 a shell. However, steel shot prices have declined and are approaching those of lead shot. Prices of newer alternatives are expected to decline as new types become more widely available. Steel performance: In numerous shooting tests, wounding loss from the use of steel shot has been scientifically shown to be no different from that of lead. Poor performance of steel often is related to mismatched load/choke combinations and exceeding the effective range of loads. Several of the new alternatives have ballistics properties similar to lead, helping to reduce concerns about effectiveness. Barrel damage: Fears about barrel damage from nontoxic shot have not been substantiated for the vast majority of shotguns. Hunters should check with shotgun manufacturers to be certain. Further assessment. The Commission has directed staff to prepare a report assessing the effects of  lead shot on wildlife and identify other situations where nontoxic shot  restrictions may be necessary. View  the report.

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[JLS]

Ask and ye shall receive

[ORCA_SIX]

I use the Remington Fast Steel, I find that it works very well. I am going to try out the Winchester Blind Side this year. Personally, I did not like the Federal Black Clouds.

Like others, I find it easier just to stick with steel due to jumping ducks and I don't have to change out my chokes or worry about having a lead shell in my vest that I might have left in it on accident.

[amosmoses]

I've been using kent diamond steel shot.It kills birds almost to good.It slices right through compared to lead shot.Did not bite one steel shot when eating the birds.

[Wenatcheejay]

Steel shot shells are not that expensive anymore. You can get them for the same, or just a little more, than the cost of lead. I don't think it's that big of a deal. And I sure don't think it's a conspiracy. 

I did not say I am against steel shot. Heck, I had some blow up a Stoger of mine, blew the ejection port right out. You are welcome to a few boxes for great Kent Steel shot if you want it. I also don't agree with your assessment that the NRA is part of conspiracies. Here are the links.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=4332
http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/Article.aspx?id=2767
http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-whispers/articles/2010/08/27/epa-surrenders-to-nra-on-gun-control-issue-epa-rejects-attempt-to-regulate-lead-in-bullets-after-nra-protests
http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-whispers/articles/2010/08/27/nra-warns-against-new-gun-control-push--from-epa
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5294


It is the last link from Montana that I mentioned the Center for Biological Diversity and the Human Society of the Untied States. Yes, they are pushing this. It would be nice as hunters if we would recognize what is going on instead of giving up a season, a species, a method at a time. But, we don't.  If I speak out I am a crack pot. I would think that those in WFW would agree. I thought that was the point, push back. I'd think being in line with the NRA would be logicial...

I waste my time.

[chukarchaser]

I agree with Wenatchee jay

[fethrduster]

I hunt Scatter Creek a fair amount (and do very well there), and with the large number of people that hunt there, I can see how lead could concentrate there and other similar areas, and how that could be a problem for waterfowl.  However, I certainly don't see the need for non toxic for general upland hunting away from pheasant release sites.   As long as it doesn't go beyond being required on pheasant release sites, I'm ok with it.  Beyond that, I'll be making my voice hear for sure.

[surfj9009]

I hunt a release sight in woodland that is private property that the guy let's the state release birds on the new law requires us to use steel on his property as well even though he's personally against it   what a croc of crap what am I supposed to do on the eastside for quail and chucker how am I supposed to afford shells to even hunt.  This is a bad deal for any upland bird hunter.

I can't believe your complaining about this. Keep in mind you get to hunt this site while others don't. You have special access that many of us would love to have. Be grateful. Maybe you could shoot less birds. I'm sure there are many of us who would like to take a few on the lands around your friends place. Unfortunatley though, your special access will undoubtedly lessen the available birds for others.

People with your mentality should be REQUIRED to pay more for ammo.

[Wenatcheejay]

I hunt a release sight in woodland that is private property that the guy let's the state release birds on the new law requires us to use steel on his property as well even though he's personally against it   what a croc of crap what am I supposed to do on the eastside for quail and chucker how am I supposed to afford shells to even hunt.  This is a bad deal for any upland bird hunter.

I can't believe your complaining about this. Keep in mind you get to hunt this site while others don't. You have special access that many of us would love to have. Be grateful. Maybe you could shoot less birds. I'm sure there are many of us who would like to take a few on the lands around your friends place. Unfortunatley though, your special access will undoubtedly lessen the available birds for others.

People with your mentality should be REQUIRED to pay more for ammo.

I had a decent talk with the USDFW at the meeting on the 25th about this. There will be no more push for Wa going lead free for all birdshot and then rifle bullets for three years. According to them, 53% of Washington hunters & sports shooters want this State to be totally lead free for hunting and shooting purposes. Don't ask me what poll or where the stats come from but it does seem there is little to no opposition to this from sportsman associations in Wa or from H-W either. It doesn't suprise me with the incredible amount of elitist hunters/sportsman/recreationalists we have in this State that if we have the ability to force people to pay more than they have to for something they don't want we are all for it. The NRA is against it, the EPA is against it, there is no Credible Scientific Study to support it, but it makes elitist people feel good and could possibly but probably never would help the environment with this move. It only makes us pay more for less. So far the best argument I have heard is that people will shoot less. I guess that is a special kind of conservation. (I want to shoot but I can't afford to 

[SkookumJeff]

I had a decent talk with the USDFW at the meeting on the 25th about this. According to them, 53% of Washington hunters & sports shooters want this State to be totally lead free for hunting and shooting purposes. Don't ask me what poll or where the stats come from but it does seem there is little to no opposition to this from sportsman associations in Wa or from H-W either. 

53% of Washington hunters & sports shooters want this State to be totally lead free for hunting and shooting purposes???

I don't believe that for a second.  These numbers must come from the same folks who count ballots in King county. 

Has anyone here at H-W done a poll on this?

Skook