TIRED OF PC HUNTING (WDFW RANT)

[CAMPMEAT]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Washingtons high tag fees and crappy seasons. It's all about money, money, money.
I've lived in this state  for 58 years and it's horrible for hunting. 

[Machias]

I don't believe for one second that it's all about "dividing and conquering".

After having gone to several 3 year season setting processes, the anti-hound agenda and watching the wolf agenda, I don't share your optomisim.     

I'm not sure I'd call it "optimism" on my part. I'd just like to know who you think is doing the "dividing and the conquering" and what purpose does it serve? The reason for the "choose your weapon" is to reduce crowding in the woods. It used to be that a person could hunt all three seasons with the appropriate weapon. It got to be too crowded so they then made it so a person had to pick just one season to hunt each year. Like I said- it's either what we have, or they can go to no more general seasons/over-the-counter tags, and make all deer and elk hunting by draw only.
 
 

Honestly, I am truely starting to believe the WDFW's mission is to end all Sport Hunting, I am starting to believe this in my heart.  I believe they can't wait for the wolf to take over the management of ungulates in this state.  Explain this to me though, how did WA used to have much higher overall hunter numbers and a much better hunting experience than they do today?  Hunter numbers are declining yet over crowding is going up.  If they open the damn state up you'd see pressure on individual herds disperse, hunter's overall experience and enjoyment would go up.

[bobcat]

I think it's because of all the gated roads on timber company lands, and public lands. And, land that is totally off limits to hunting now, that used to be open. There is a lot less area for people to spread out in now than there was back in the 70's and up into the 80's. I remember when I was in high school, there were very few gates on logging roads. You could pretty much drive anywhere you wanted. I don't necessarily think this is the WDFW's fault. Although with all the extra money they made last year off our special permit fees, they promised an increase in public access to private lands for hunting. But I haven't seen that yet. Have you?

[Machias]

Nope, me either.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

As stated, more gates, more crowding. 
I park at gates and walk in, after a couple miles I am alone. 
in my experience, the only crowding I see is on, or near open roads, but that is in the unit where I hunt, your area might be different,
And a common complaint I have actually been hearing lately is that there is not enough hunters out there "pushing them around" making it difficult to get on the Elk.
Actually heard this from a guy that hunted Manastash, and a guy I ran into this year in SW Washington while I was happy to be hunting undisturbed Elk (well, until I disturbed them)

[Glockster]

That's been the real damage with the whole Choose Your Weapon.  It has pitted each user group against each other and has us fighting each other for time in the woods and open GMUs.  One of the few states in the US that has not expand archery and Muzzy seasons.  If you look at most of the states out there, all this divide and conquer is not going on.  Pretty sad state of affairs in this State and one of the main reasons I gave up hunting big game here.   

AMEN brotha Machias!.  ~Something to think about when some of you guys jump on the "quality" hunt bandwagon of restricted access, permit draws, special treatment & antler point restrictions.....all WDFW managment done in the name of "quality" in the past two decades has basically lead to the nickel and dime'd to death p#@#$ poor big game seasons we now "enjoy".

[bobcat]

What's the other option to the "piss poor big game seasons" we now have? What, unlimited numbers of tags with no restriction on where a person can hunt, or when? Why bother having seasons or tags at all then? Let's just have a year around season! Sounds good to me!

[colockumelk]

I hope people are ready because its only gonna get worse. Here's what i think will jappen. And yes it ends with WA going to permit only. Wdfw will wait until the bitter end to do so. I also think in the end it will be the people who ask for it to be permit only. I give it 10 - 12 years.

Starting in 2015 the WDFW will finally realize that true spike doesn't work. So they make 328  and 329 permit only. 10-15% of these guys quite outright. The other 3,000 or so disperse. Most probably go to the manastash. So now gmu's 340 and 342 are slammed with more hunters. Hunter density goes up and hunting quality and animal escapememt goes down.  Eventually these two units goes to permit only as well. 10-15% of these guys quit. The rest disperse to 336, 360, 352 and 346. 346 and 336 do okay because they ate so rugged and have a lot of roadless areas. So while half of the 336 and 346 is packed the other half is not. 352 and 360 get really slammed. Eventually they go permit only. Another 10-15% quit. At this point the WDFW realizes its futile to keep the Yakima and Colockum gmu s otc. So it goes permit only.

Some disperse and hunt the west side. Most probably get discouraged and fail. They then only apply for permits and hunt only when drawn. Some move and hunt the Blues. The blues gets slammed. Same thing happens and it to becomes permit only. 

West side remains OTC and East side goes permit only.  The good news is that the east side will give out about 10x more permits for bulls as it does now. (Cow permits probably only slightly increase.) Quality of hunting goes way up. But.... The bad news is you only probably hunt every 2 or 3 years. 

I think in the end our big game hunting would mirror Oregon.  Hopefully the WDFW would at least leave the wilderness areas OTC. Hopefully none of the above happens. But the course I have seen our hunting take permit only is the only destination I see is ending up.

[seth30]

What's the other option to the "piss poor big game seasons" we now have? What, unlimited numbers of tags with no restriction on where a person can hunt, or when? Why bother having seasons or tags at all then? Let's just have a year around season! Sounds good to me!

For yotes and cougars I agree

[O_mykiss]

It's been said before but arguing about season allotments and what is "fair" is pointless.

WDFW has to manage the people as much or more than it does the wildlife. As long as the relative number of hunter days per area etc. stays the same, deal with it. Hunter access  is a much bigger issue than who got their feelings hurt because they lost a day here or there.

Let's not bicker about the color of the drapes when the house is on fire.

[Glockster]

Colockum elk has it right.

A another look into the 2024 season Yakima elk herd crystal ball:


~ The Oak Creek wolf pack, the Bumping Lake pack, and Chinook wolf packs number approx 36 animals each and kill all year long.  The new Goat Rocks Pack starts working over the other side of the lake. 

~ The indian hunters expand their seasons and kill modeled after the forgone opportunity clause of the fish treaties.  The newly federally recognized Duwamish tribe claims "usual and accustomed hunting grounds" claims to the area joining the Yakimas, the Muckleshoots, the Suquamish, Tulalips, and the Nooksacks.  All 6 tribes have different regulations, seasons, and enforcement jurisdictions.  Tensions are high.

~ WDFW / Dept of recreation/Dept of State parks/ Dept of Ecology notes that elk permit draw applications are now down 32% over last year and raise the app cost to $10 and tag cost to $158 to cover the shortfall. 

[bobcat]

elk permit draw applications are now down 32% over last year and raise the app cost to $10

 
The cost for 2012 is more than that:
 

Special Hunt Permit Application - Quality               $13.20

[Machias]

Yes, OPEN the entire state up, OTC tags.  We used to have allot more folks hunting and crowding was never an issue.  What kind of sound judgment is to put all of the hunters into a few GMUs, how do those herds handle the immense pressure.  It's a ridiculous game management practice.  It can't all be gated roads issue.

[Glockster]

Oops!  Good catch Bobcat....the price would never go down.  Gov't bureaucracy will always attempt to swim against the most very basic of economic principles like supply and demand. 

[CAMPMEAT]

I think it's because of all the gated roads on timber company lands, and public lands. And, land that is totally off limits to hunting now, that used to be open. There is a lot less area for people to spread out in now than there was back in the 70's and up into the 80's. I remember when I was in high school, there were very few gates on logging roads. You could pretty much drive anywhere you wanted. I don't necessarily think this is the WDFW's fault. Although with all the extra money they made last year off our special permit fees, they promised an increase in public access to private lands for hunting. But I haven't seen that yet. Have you?

No access to land that I see.  Plus now we have to buy a Discovery Pass to access certain lands. Well' never win !!