hound hunters, the wife got a very interesting email from wdfw today.

[Machias]

Keep in mind this is NOT the same as the permits we were able to draw and hunt. This is a depredation type permit from what I gather. When and if they have a problem cat they will contact you and you try and kill that cat that is the problem? I could be wrong but pretty sure that is the deal??? This is the thing they first started years ago, Before the good permits were available.

 

[trophyhunt]

You should all refuse to assist. You know very well that WDFW abuses you. They won't allow you a season, even pursuit only. Yet they expect you to keep your dogs in shape and come running when they call. Stand together and defy them.

Exactly!!!

[Cowboy]

i read the hunt criteria, correct me if i am wrong.  Looks like if you are drawn for a hunt zone, there is a quota to be met and they will also put you on a "we'll call you if we have a problem cat" list.
Obviously some areas wont have any quota to be met i assume.
Please tell me if i am understanding that correctly.
Houndhunter, i agree with you, we must keep our foot in the door somehow or they are going to banish houndhunting completely. 
Tough call

[Arteman]

I know its wishful thinking, but I think our game dept has people that want to use hounds for lion management. I can see them building on this though, and I can only hope they do. The downfall to the pilot program was allowing the public to apply and letting guides take advantage of the opportunity to run there dogs, im positive it would still be around if those two things hadn't taken place. My point is, if we keep the same idea that the pilot program used to have, being that this was for safety and problem cats, I see them expanding this into being like the pilot program we use to have. I'm trying to be optimistic lol

When the pilot program first started as I'm sure your well aware, one of the requirements was that you had to be a dog owner, however every dog owner was having everybody they knew put in for them in hopes of getting a chance to run their dogs.  Loop hole being they write a fake bill or sale, and anybody could be an instant dog owner.  Anyways it wasn't tell the last year, maybe last two years of them pilot hunts that you didnt have to be an actuall dog owner.  For me I didn't mind it, its about working the dogs, not killing the game.  So no matter the shooter as long as the dogs are catching the game its a plus, and if somebody bags their first lion another plus.  I had no problem with them letting Joe public apply, it just made the odds of drawing worse is all.

[Rooster1981]

Ha, I hope guys would respect the fact that you need hounds to apply

I have a lil different take on this, im very happy that they kept this program going. I think the wdfw prob went through alot of trouble to keep this program alive I thank them for that. I hope they will build on this program and expand our hound hunting opportunitys. As long as we keep the guides out and limit the draw to hound owners only I think this program could really improve in a few years. I know what these tags are like in years, so no need to inform me lol, but I think this program has the potential to provide us with some good chances to run our dogs.

I agree with you 100% Houndhunter, I watched the wdfw fight like hell to keep the pilot program and sadly it failed. If this is the best we get then I'm all for it. I will support the wdfw and contribute a positive image for houndsman.

Machias I remember very well when the public safety removal permits were over 100 permits the first year then it dropped to 77 then it dropped again to around 25-35. when the permits dropped a very good Friend of mine was working very hard for the WSHC working with the WDFW to get us these permits and it was a big blow to us houndsmen, but soon after the pilot program started and it too had a similar track record starting with alot of permits and then gradually dropping year after year.
 
  But the point is the WDFW needs houndsmen and this is nudge saying we didnt forget you guys and hang in there things will get better. Here is a copy of the application its very much differant than before and it includes the entire state.

WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE
2011-2012 COUGAR MANAGEMENT REMOVALS



Cougar Management Removal Information:

•   The permittee must be a Washington State resident dog hunter who, at the time of application for a permit, possesses a valid big game license with cougar as a species option.

•   Cougar Management Removals will be conducted from December 1st, 2011 to March 31st, 2012.

•   Hunters may use any lawful big game modern firearm, archery, or muzzleloader equipment for hunting cougar. 

•   The permit holder may be required to give up the Cougar Management Removal permit if he/she violates any condition of the permit or violates other criminal laws while acting under the permit.

•   Applicants must apply for a specific Hunt Zone.  Up to four (4) Hunt Zones may be listed in order of priority.  All applicants will be randomly ranked on a list by Hunt Zone.  Applicants will be contacted from the ranked list on an as-needed basis and assigned to hunt in a specific portion of a GMU within their Hunt Zone if needed to address public safety issues or protection of livestock and pets.  At this time, the Department anticipates that there will be very few GMUs meeting the requirements for a cougar management removal. 


Removal quota system:

•   Applicants contacted by the Department for participation in a cougar management removal will be issued a permit to hunt cougar with the aid of dogs in a portion of a GMU. 

•   The permit holder and all who accompany the permit holder must complete the Department’s Cougar Management Removal education course prior to participating in a Cougar Management Removal.

•   To verify the cougar removal season is open or closed in a GMU, the permit holder shall call Olympia WDFW Enforcement Program Office within 24 hours prior to exercising a Cougar Management Removal permit.  A permit holder may harvest one legal cougar.

•   Permit holders may hunt cougar until the allotted numbers of cougars have been removed from their respective permit area, or March 31st, 2012, whichever occurs is first.





 
Hunt Area Choices

This is a management removal administrated by a WDFW designated coordinator.  Individuals wanting to participate in a Cougar Management Removal apply on a Hunt Zone level and may be contacted on an as-needed basis to conducted removals in specific portions of GMUs within their selected Hunt Zone.  Not all permit hunters will be contacted in a given year. 

Select Hunt Areas in order of preference
Hunt Area Choice   Zone
9030   Coastal Zone
9031   North Cascades Zone
9032   Puget Sound Zone
9033   South Cascades Zone
9034   Okanogan Zone
9035   Chelan Zone
9036   Kittitas-Yakima Zone
9037   Klickitat Zone
9038   Okanogan-Ferry Zone
9039   Stevens-Pend Oreille Zone
9040   Spokane Zone
9041   Blue Mtn Zone
9042   Columbia Basin Zone

[Machias]

I'm sorry I have to disagree with you, I think your nuts (in a freindly sort of way) if you think the WDFW is not one of the if not THE most anit-hound organization I've ever been involved with.  Hmmm lets see for no scientific reason, for no population concerns what so ever lets ban hunting coyotes with dogs.  Let's not support them when they need us the most.  They were dragged kicking and screaming into the orginal Public Safety Cougar Removal process.  I may be wrong on the original numbers, if so I apologize, but I don't think the first couple of years were that high.  If it wasn't for the 5 NE counties telling the State either you do something or we will deputize folks and take care of the problem ourselves it wouldn't have happened then.  They are also screwing with the cat seasons year in and year out, they are always for less cats harvest.  They are not a firend of the houndsmen.

[Machias]

I know its wishful thinking, but I think our game dept has people that want to use hounds for lion management. I can see them building on this though, and I can only hope they do. The downfall to the pilot program was allowing the public to apply and letting guides take advantage of the opportunity to run there dogs, im positive it would still be around if those two things hadn't taken place. My point is, if we keep the same idea that the pilot program used to have, being that this was for safety and problem cats, I see them expanding this into being like the pilot program we use to have. I'm trying to be optimistic lol

When the pilot program first started as I'm sure your well aware, one of the requirements was that you had to be a dog owner, however every dog owner was having everybody they knew put in for them in hopes of getting a chance to run their dogs.  Loop hole being they write a fake bill or sale, and anybody could be an instant dog owner.  Anyways it wasn't tell the last year, maybe last two years of them pilot hunts that you didnt have to be an actuall dog owner.  For me I didn't mind it, its about working the dogs, not killing the game.  So no matter the shooter as long as the dogs are catching the game its a plus, and if somebody bags their first lion another plus.  I had no problem with them letting Joe public apply, it just made the odds of drawing worse is all.

I used to think the same thing, hey no biggie, I don't care about killing a cat I just want to work my dogs.  Problem is it did not work out that way either.  I could never get guys to go on a consistent basis.  Once someone got their cat they were done and you can't go out without them.  Plus you get folks from the westside drawing a tag (this is nothing bad about the westside guys, this is just reality) They can't afford to come over every weekend and run the dogs, escpecially if they have already got thier cat.  You still end up with dogs sitting around not being able to run.  It's a flawed system and I am NOT blaming the guys on the westside they have every right to chase cats and want to chase them as much as me, but the reality is 95% of the folks who draw this permit could not go out much and once they got a cat they were pretty much finished.  I think the answer is run your dogs in ID if you're lucky enough to get a non-resident permit, chase coons here or go down to OR and chase bobcats.  And then if someone needs to go up here take them as much as you can.  I don't really see any other choices.  I think pursuit only tags would work, but I don't know when or if we'll ever see those.

[Machias]

• Applicants must apply for a specific Hunt Zone.  Up to four (4) Hunt Zones may be listed in order of priority. All applicants will be randomly ranked on a list by Hunt Zone.  Applicants will be contacted from the ranked list on an as-needed basis and assigned to hunt in a specific portion of a GMU within their Hunt Zone if needed to address public safety issues or protection of livestock and pets.  At this time, the Department anticipates that there will be very few GMUs meeting the requirements for a cougar management removal. 

[whacker1]

I think that Machias summed it up very well.  The department has no interest in actually thinning the number of Cougars.  Why would they change the general cougar seasons to be weapon specific for varying time periods through September, October, & November, when Bear is open to any legal method during those same months.  It makes no sense. 

this is only for credibility to be able to respond to the public " we at WDFW have a system in place to respond to those problem cats".  It is a b.s. maneuver to play c.y.a. to the legislature and counties that face the largest problems with cats. 

I think the legislature is part of the problem as they are not interested in making decisions on the hound hunting either.  But WDFW could simplify the system by making a general boot hunt from Sept 1. to March 31 with any legal method.  It would also give the hunting community a little respect in saying that we understand that you can help us with this problem.

[Machias]

Just to make it perfectly clear Arteman, Rooster and Houndhunter, we are not enemies/advesaries over this.  I completely understand where your coming from.  I HOPE that you guys are right and I'm wrong.  I just don't see it with what I have seen over the past 12 to 15 years in dealing with the WDFW on this and other predator issues.

[huntnphool]

I don't care about killing a cat I just want to work my dogs.  Problem is it did not work out that way either.  I could never get guys to go on a consistent basis.  Once someone got their cat they were done and you can't go out without them.  Plus you get folks from the westside drawing a tag (this is nothing bad about the westside guys, this is just reality) They can't afford to come over every weekend and run the dogs

 I posted an offer last season for ANY of you hound guys that wanted to run your dogs, I would be there so you could run them with my tag. I can leave at a moments notice, I have the resources and am willing to tag along just to take pics.

 Not one hound guy took me up on it!!!

[Machias]

What Unit did you draw?

[huntnphool]

What Unit did you draw?

Stevens/Pend Oreille

[Machias]

Two years ago I sold all of my dogs and all of my gear, due to frustration with the way Hound Hunting is conducted in WA.  Last winter, around the middle of Dec I was notified I drew a ID non-resident hound permit.  I started collecting gear and dogs again and was ready to go around the middle of Feb.  Sorry, I did not see your offer last year or if I did, since I did not have dogs or gear I probably did not give it much thought.  Sorry you did not get any offers, I guess it's frustrating for all sides concerned.

[bucklucky]

Robs hunt was pursuit only about midway through december so I had no chance of going , that hunt gets a limited quota due to high Boot hunter harvest.