Wolf meeting

[BIGINNER]

you know what really worries me, earlier this year the cops and animal control where taking our predators out of towns 1 bear was takin out of a school parking lot (if my memory serves me right) now they are helping an apex predator expand its territory. how long will in be till its normal to have bears in our back yards and cougars in the trees around our houses or till a child is attacked because theres no food. we have proven that we can kill the wolves to damn near extinction and the deer and elk will recover it will hurt our hunting but hunting i don't feel is the biggest picture here. WA has the 4 largest predators in the country and all 4 have proven to be very good at killing people again i ask how many people have to get hurt

mainly because poison was used.

[remington300mag]

While I do agree that the majority of WDFW are not anti hunters, I believe the authors of the wolf plan are not in any way pro-hunters.

There very well could be some anti-hunters involved, I have no doubt about that. But I just don't think it's fair to say the agency as a whole is anti-hunting.

Bobcat is absolutely right! WDFW is not anti hunting! They want you to buy your hunting license every year! They want you to spend the money on going to the woods and everything else involved with the hunt! What the WDFW is, is ANTI Killing....or Harvesting! Once they got your money, they don't want you touching their animals.

[grundy53]

While I do agree that the majority of WDFW are not anti hunters, I believe the authors of the wolf plan are not in any way pro-hunters.

There very well could be some anti-hunters involved, I have no doubt about that. But I just don't think it's fair to say the agency as a whole is anti-hunting.

Bobcat is absolutely right! WDFW is not anti hunting! They want you to buy your hunting license every year! They want you to spend the money on going to the woods and everything else involved with the hunt! What the WDFW is, is ANTI Killing....or Harvesting! Once they got your money, they don't want you touching their animals.

Your right!

[KillBilly]

The other item that really bothers me is in one of there slides they basically admitted that they were not going to try to help the Caribou or the Columbian white-tail deer when wolves prey on them.  Why did we waste millions and millions of dollars on these species just to see them be taken by wolves.  I wonder what the employees are going to do on the Julia Butler Hansen Refuge when there are 0 deer to manage

I am not disputing the author of the above quote. But I do know what he speaks of. I am inserting a portion of Chapter 5 of the wolf plan that had the slide he speaks of information on it. I actually inserted more than the slide had so you can read more of the para. F. info. It is confusing and in my opinion what rose673refers to is the portion highlighted in green. What I personally gleaned from this slide is that waiting 3 or more years IS just about equal to doing nothing.

 Please read it......
During recovery stages, while wolves are listed in Washington, it is unlikely that they will have a significant negative effect on ungulate populations in the state. However, if WDFW determined that wolf predation was a primary limiting factor for an “at-risk” ungulate population, and the wolf population in that wolf recovery region was healthy (i.e., it exceeds the delisting objectives for that recovery region), WDFW could consider reducing wolf abundance in the localized area occupied by the ungulate population before state delisting occurs.
For the purposes of this plan, an at-risk ungulate population is any federal or state listed ungulate population (e.g., Selkirk Mountain woodland caribou, Columbian white-tailed deer), or any ungulate population for which it is determined to have declined 25% or more below management objectives for three or more years and population trend analysis predicts a continued decline. For populations for which numeric estimates and/or management objectives are not currently available, it will not be possible to use a specific threshold to assess a need for management action. Instead WDFW will use other sources of information related to the population, such as harvest trends, hunter effort trends, sex and age ratios, and others.
Authority for the “take” of wildlife exists with the director of WDFW under state law RCW 77.12.240.

Waiting 3 years is too long. It was explained that it was necessary  to wait 3 years so they had good data
  the herd is gone but I got good data......

[WAcoyotehunter]

Thanks Killbilly- the whole plan is filled with fluff like that.  If wolves start going after the caribou up here, they should get destroyed- despite the state listing status.  That is one of the strong comments we need to be making about the plan. 

[KillBilly]

The plan has more holes than Swiss cheese and more Granola than Euell Gibbons could eat but.......

I have a high level of Faith and Confidence in several of the Commissioners. They are neither blind nor stupid. I am HIGHLY OPTIMISTIC that the Commission will reject the current plan and send them back to the drawing board.

Don't get me wrong, rejecting the plan doesn't fill the gaps or fix the flaws that exist in the WDFW administration but it will send a clear message to them that we want and expect better from them.

[sebek556]

killbilly I hope your right, keep up the good work  any word on the spokane meeting? I havent been able to find out anything on it so far, only it is possible.

[6x6in6]

I have a high level of Faith and Confidence in several of the Commissioners. They are neither blind nor stupid. I am HIGHLY OPTIMISTIC that the Commission will reject the current plan and send them back to the drawing board.

I like this, for the most part. 
In your opinion and with what you viewed yesterday, would you say that "several" is at or near a majority of the Commissioners?

[KillBilly]

killbilly I hope your right, keep up the good work  any word on the spokane meeting? I havent been able to find out anything on it so far, only it is possible.

I hope this doesn't get me in trouble but yesterday I confided in one of the staff and was told the Commission had gotten the word loud and clear that they needed to meet on the eastside. The response was one of those "I can't say but read between the lines" answers. I am thinking that the Commission is leaning heavily towards Spokane in November. They should finalize that deision in the next few days.

[KillBilly]

I have a high level of Faith and Confidence in several of the Commissioners. They are neither blind nor stupid. I am HIGHLY OPTIMISTIC that the Commission will reject the current plan and send them back to the drawing board.

I like this, for the most part. 
In your opinion and with what you viewed yesterday, would you say that "several" is at or near a majority of the Commissioners?

I have crosshairs on 4 that I think that will vote reject and 2 that are borderline but leaning towards reject.  This comes from watching them and their reactions both facial and verbal to a multitude of the questionable issues. I have only identified one that I am sure is pro-wolf.... I don't know if that helps you any but that is my observation and opinion.

[6x6in6]

I have a high level of Faith and Confidence in several of the Commissioners. They are neither blind nor stupid. I am HIGHLY OPTIMISTIC that the Commission will reject the current plan and send them back to the drawing board.

I like this, for the most part. 
In your opinion and with what you viewed yesterday, would you say that "several" is at or near a majority of the Commissioners?

I have crosshairs on 4 that I think that will vote reject and 2 that are borderline but leaning towards reject.  This comes from watching them and their reactions both facial and verbal to a multitude of the questionable issues. I have only identified one that I am sure is pro-wolf.... I don't know if that helps you any but that is my observation and opinion.

That sure sounds real positive.  Usually one's physical expressions can tell a lot of their story.  Thanks KB, keep up the good work.  You are doing a helluva good job and I thank you for that!!! 

[mulehunter]

KillBilly, sound good.  We will see how they play it out at End.

Mulehunter.

[leed]

I was there and have attended or listed and/or watched each meeting.  I have had convesations with Joe Stohr, Phil Anderson and Nate Pamhlin.  Not Rock Beach, as he is an idiot! Sorry, couldn't help it.
1. Phil has the Gov GRegwhatever at his rear, he has inept staff at his feet, he is fisheries genious but lacks big game, he has thtreats of lawsuits from the left no matter what, and sportsmen in front of him and on his right a very good team of Commisioners with the exception of two. He was put in a bad spot at a bad time. He is a hunter and Nate too!
2. The left is using this to curtail and/or shut down hunting.
3. Most of the so-aclled Pro Wolfers are misinformed. We talked to two gals yesterday and before terstimony started they were seeing our side and agreed with us.
4. If you want to makea difference. Write each Commisioner and copy the Director. USE ONLY FACTS! DO NOT use emotion.
5. Keep calling them and writing.
6. Behind the scenes we are providing the Chair the real facts and have countered every single slip up or misrepresentation Nate or Rocky has provided.  They slipped THREE more times yesterday and I have already provided the CORRECT facts and data to the Chair this morning.
7. This plan is full of holes, they know it, the Director now sees it and it is inexcusable for the Dept to have not started the MANAGEMENT PLAN already.
8. Correct, HUNTERS as good as we are CAN'T control the Wolves. Very few will ever get harvested by hunters. They are cunning animals. That is why we need a TOTAL cap on wolves. VERY LOW NUMBERS OF THEM!
9. Breeding pairs is smoke to convlude the real numbers and yes, all the data sets used to project the additive and consumptive harvest of wolves on deer and elk were not correct.
10. KEEP SENDING LETTERS to the Commision, we are SO CLOSE to getting the plan rejected AS IS. What changes they will request is still not known.
11. Every chance you get to talk toa pro wolfer use facts and reason and explain the real problem clearly, we can convert them if we use real facts . Well, convert some. Some are so out of touch with the real world of nature it's scary they breath the same air.

[Special T]

If the WDFW really wanted to help out the Woodland caribou or the columbian white tail herds they would have an all outattack on preditors in those areas. Hound hunting, for bear and cougar not to mention liberal seasons. That is ALREADY in thier ability to control yet they do not do it! 

[asl20bball]

4. If you want to makea difference. Write each Commisioner and copy the Director. USE ONLY FACTS! DO NOT use emotion.
5. Keep calling them and writing.

Is there a list or contact information to write to the members and director? Or perhaps someone could post a list.

*On a side note- IF YOU'RE READING THIS SUBJECT STRING YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF, FUTURE GENERATIONS OF HUNTERS, AND OUR STATE'S GAME HERDS TO WRITE TO THE MEMBERS AND DIRECTOR. WE NEED OUR VOICE HEARD! Please take the time to do so. I know I will.