Deer Numbers Down - Methow?

[huntnphool]

 Be waiting for your report.

[CavemantheHunter]

Hopefully it's a good one! They're supposed to get some rain late Thursday and Friday, so hopefully that puts some of their movement into action. I'll let you know!

[Deep Forks]

Phool, its the same in the Entiat Valley, L. Wen. and surrounding area's.

There are plenty of does throughout the valley right now, most are on private land in the river bottoms.

   

[boneaddict]

Deer numbers are way down in the valley.  HIGH country or private land river bottoms.   ITs a fact.  Get used to it.  It has nothing to do withthe migration.  They are low in the high country as well compared to historic levels.   After two feet of snow hits the ground, you'll see it on the winter range as well.  There is vast amount of range that hardly had a deer on it last year.

WHY?

Its called predator management, not just the wolves. 

I've noticed an increase of deer staying in the valley.   What does this do to fawn recruitment.  Well half of them get hit by cars, and no they usually don't get added to the deer fatality counts.  Its like smacking a little dog.  Why are they staying in the valley.  I can only speculate.  Coyotes are afforded the same protection on private land.  (some private land anyway. )

A late season will increase your success but will decimate your older bucks.  I've seen it many times, and although hunting the first week of November is AWESOME, its not what should happen.   We are just recovering from the last time they had a late season.  It took about 5 years.  A whole age class of bucks was WHIPED out. Essentially bad luck with a late October season and inclement weather and early migration.    Phool and I have always disagreed on that, and probably always will.   Thats ok though. 

I have had lots of time in the valley to think about it.     The population of deer in the valley isn't near what it could or should be.

[Guy]

huntnphool and boneaddict both make good sense. Early, warm season and I too am seeing a LOT of coyote sign in my hunting area. Not many deer either. I used to be pretty aggressive about my off-season coyote hunting, but have slacked off in recent years. Will see about changing that, starting this winter! Shoot a 'yote, save a deer. Or a dozen deer. 

Meanwhile, I'll keep putting in for those November rut hunts... 

[boneaddict]

Stealing this quote from another thread from Bearpaw.

I think Deer management has lost ground, many herds are at a fraction of former numbers and steadily declining. The combination of high predator numbers, liberal tag sales, poaching, tribal hunting, hard winters, and loss of winter range has compounded the negative factors for a devastating effect on deer numbers in many areas

[CavemantheHunter]

I completely agree bone. Between the bears, yotes, cats, and now wolves, those deer don't stand much of a chance. What got me was that even in the high country, I did not see a fawn. I saw about 10 does with no yearlings up high, and I know that they weren't hit by cars. I will be going back this weekend with an emphasis on predator hunting. It sickens me to not see 1/5 of the deer I used to see over there in God's country.

[MtnMuley]

Fitkin says our deer numbers are good, so they must be, as he is the bio there.

Also, I hope they keep the shorter season towards the middle of October instead of the end of October.  A few years back when they extended the season to 2 full weeks, deer slaughters occured.  This isn't the 80's when the season ran into the middle of November.  These deer have adapted to our shorter, earlier seasons.  When,  back in the day, could you go count 30+ bucks in a single day in the first part of November?  You couldn't.  We were lucky to see a buck a day.  Everybody (most) wants to harvest a big buck during the general, but in these days if WDFW pushes the season back, it will devistate the herds.   There are plenty of nice bucks out there right now.  You just have to work for them.

[CavemantheHunter]

The herds have already been devastated. I've been hunting there for over 12 years and my dad for 25, and this year we have seen fewer deer than ever. This is not just a coincidence. And obviously you have to work hard to get into good bucks, but that is always the case. It is definitely harder to do that, though, when the deer numbers are down. I don't believe Fitkin. Just looking at the tally on Highway 153 shows me that less deer have been hit this year as well. The deer numbers are definitely down, and the fact that far less does have yearlings this year is proof of that.

[huntnphool]

Phool and I have always disagreed on that, and probably always will.   Thats ok though.

 Well we both agree on this.

 I also agree the numbers are not what they could or should be but they are significantly better than the year following the hard winter of the early 90's.

 Whats funny is how many don't believe it when WDFW says the deer numbers are good, but they do believe WDFW when they say wolves won't have an impact on the herds and although "translocation" is written into the proposed wolf plan, "it won't be used"

 

[MtnMuley]

The herds have already been devastated. I've been hunting there for over 12 years and my dad for 25, and this year we have seen fewer deer than ever. This is not just a coincidence. And obviously you have to work hard to get into good bucks, but that is always the case. It is definitely harder to do that, though, when the deer numbers are down. I don't believe Fitkin. Just looking at the tally on Highway 153 shows me that less deer have been hit this year as well. The deer numbers are definitely down, and the fact that far less does have yearlings this year is proof of that.

First off, the herds have not been devistated.  Numbers aren't as good as should be in my opinion, but they're definately not devistated.  Deer adapt to what they're subject to -- wolves, other increased predator populations, poaching, land development, etc.  Also, the Fitkin comment was a joke, like the man.

Phool and I have always disagreed on that, and probably always will.   Thats ok though.

 Whats funny is how many don't believe it when WDFW says the deer numbers are good, but they do believe WDFW when they say wolves won't have an impact on the herds and although "translocation" is written into the proposed wolf plan, "it won't be used"

 

 

[huntnphool]

Also, the Fitkin comment was a joke, like the man.

LMAO

[CavemantheHunter]

How low would the population have to get for you to agree that "devastation" is indeed the correct term?

[MtnMuley]

At least half of what it is now.  Certain areas are definately lower than others, but other areas are doing as well as I've seen.

[CavemantheHunter]

If it continues at this rate, I'd say give it two years and it'd be half of what it is now, especially if the fawn survival rate is low. The 3 areas I hunted all seemed to be hurting, so I may have to check out a few different areas over there this weekend.