Author Topic: WDFW Presumption of Guilt while Hunting - Frustration! (Read 7096 times)

flysar · « **on:** October 21, 2011, 11:53:21 AM »

Last year I bought a compact Foxpro Scorpion electronic caller that easily fits in my butt pack. I thought if I always had it with me while scouting/hunting I would likely call for predators more often; used it quite a bit, called a few Bobcat and Yotes.

Fast forward to this year and because I can hunt Cougar during modern rifle deer in Klickitat County this year I thought maybe I'd buy a modern deer tag and after the morning hunt call for Cougar or Bear... better think again!

I called WDFW Enforcement Section out of Vancouver this morning and they said, didn't get their name, the fact that I had an electronic call in my pack while hauling a deer out of the woods I may be wrongly accused of using it... maybe someone heard me using it at some point during the season... No kidding! They advised not to carry the call while hunting deer or don't harvest a deer if I have the call with me... I'm not going to buy the deer tag to eliminate all possible accusations.

Thought I'd pass the info along.

buglebuster · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2011, 11:56:48 AM »

Some of the rules in this state

bigtex · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2011, 12:52:51 PM »

Quote from: flysar on October 21, 2011, 11:53:21 AM

I called WDFW Enforcement Section out of Vancouver

Most likely you did not talk to anybody in WDFW Enforcement. 99% of the time you talk to someone about a regulation question at a WDFW regional office they are the general call receivers, not enforcement. In fact, rarely is a WDFW Enforcement person at the regional office, and usually it is only the Captain. FYI, Enforcement in Klickitat County is handled under WDFW Region 3 Enforcement. WDFW Region 5 is different in regards to enforcement, in general Wahkiakum and Klickitat Counties are under Region 5, but in regards to enforcement they are under Region 6 and 3.

boneaddict · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2011, 12:56:59 PM »

Not sure why this is a surprise to anyone. ITs like carrying your 30-06 while archery hunting for deer, just in case you see a bear.

ITs a good heads up though to keep people from making a bad mistake.

You could pick up a mouth call. There are some DAMN good ones on here all the time, that are pieces of art let alone effective as heck.

CedarPants · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2011, 01:07:31 PM »

Quote from: bigtex on October 21, 2011, 12:52:51 PM

Most likely you did not talk to anybody in WDFW Enforcement. 99% of the time you talk to someone about a regulation question at a WDFW regional office they are the general call receivers, not enforcement. In fact, rarely is a WDFW Enforcement person at the regional office, and usually it is only the Captain.

I spotted a wounded doe that had been struck by a car along Highway 2 a couple years ago while on my way home from turkey hunting. Far from dead, but far from having the use of 3 of her 4 legs. I called the regional office and the lady that answered the phone said "you said you were turkey hunting? If you have a gun, go ahead and shoot her".

I declined. The sheriff deputy and game warden that responded a half hour later to take care of her told me that while it would have been the ethical thing to do, it would have in fact been an illegal act and they apologized that I was instructed to do so.

I also don't think wardens in general presume you are guilty. There are overzealous wardens, but I think they are the exception to the rule (from my experience anyway). In a situation where you could have possibly been breaking the law (electronic call while deer hunting), I think it is their job to inquire as to why you have the call rather than ignore the fact that you have it. Doesn't mean they think you are a thug.

flysar · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2011, 01:08:22 PM »

Quote from: bigtex on October 21, 2011, 12:52:51 PM

Quote from: flysar on October 21, 2011, 11:53:21 AM
I called WDFW Enforcement Section out of Vancouver

Most likely you did not talk to anybody in WDFW Enforcement. 99% of the time you talk to someone about a regulation question at a WDFW regional office they are the general call receivers, not enforcement. In fact, rarely is a WDFW Enforcement person at the regional office, and usually it is only the Captain. FYI, Enforcement in Klickitat County is handled under WDFW Region 3 Enforcement. WDFW Region 5 is different in regards to enforcement, in general Wahkiakum and Klickitat Counties are under Region 5, but in regards to enforcement they are under Region 6 and 3.

I talked briefly with the general questions folks and asked to be transferred to enforcement. I talked with a gal who answered, enforcement office, and she put me on hold so se could talk with an enforcement officer. I did not personally talk with an enforcement officer but did hear her message loud and clear.

The answer I recvd sounded so plausible based on others experiences that unless I could get something in writing stating otherwise I'm not betting my hunting/fishing license on it.

If you hear something to the contrary I'd like to know.

flysar · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2011, 01:14:04 PM »

Quote from: boneaddict on October 21, 2011, 12:56:59 PM

Not sure why this is a surprise to anyone. ITs like carrying your 30-06 while archery hunting for deer, just in case you see a bear. ITs a good heads up though to keep people from making a bad mistake.

You could pick up a mouth call. There are some DAMN good ones on here all the time, that are pieces of art let alone effective as heck.

I have several mouth calls but the electronic call has some bear and cougar vocalizations as well as some distress sounds that I can't immitate that I like to use in combo with the typical rabbit, deer, elk distress sounds.

Heredoggydoggy · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2011, 01:25:59 PM »

Sounds to me like he was just alerting you to the possibility of trouble with the laws. I also have a Foxpro Scorpion and like it a lot. But I never carry it when deer hunting. Even with mouth calls, I've had deer come to the distressed rabbit call. It sounds a lot like a fawn bleat.

flysar · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2011, 01:43:01 PM »

They used this situation for an analogy; if I was baiting deer with apples, etc, (legal) and a bear wandered in and I killed it, that would be baiting and is illegal.

I made it very clear to the person I talked with that if I was using my electronic call and a legal buck walked in I would not shoot it. That is when the "how would we know if" question came up and they advised me to not carry an electronic caller if I plan to hunt deer regardless if I used it or not to aid in the harvest.

The intent of my post is to strictly advise others of what one WDFW enforcement office stated to me regarding my question. I also have left a voice mail message for the "Captain" of Region 3, I'll report what I hear from them.

BIGINNER · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2011, 01:51:27 PM »

i have a quick question its kind of on this topic, if i was pheasant hunting, and i carry a couple slugs with myself just in case i run into deer,.. i shouldn't get into any trouble, right. of course if i have my dog with me i won't be shooting any deer

Knocker of rocks · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2011, 03:56:01 PM »

Quote from: flysar on October 21, 2011, 11:53:21 AM

Last year I bought a compact Foxpro Scorpion electronic caller that easily fits in my butt pack. I thought if I always had it with me while scouting/hunting I would likely call for predators more often......

Why would they even know it was in your pack? Without probable cause, what is in your pack is your secret

dreamunelk · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2011, 09:58:02 AM »

Don't know much about these things but, is it a predator call? I would think that most officers would not even comment if you were playing a predator call during the modern deer season. Just probably think you are no threat to the local deer population.

Educate me please!

sebek556 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2011, 10:19:27 AM »

Quote from: dreamunelk on October 22, 2011, 09:58:02 AM

Don't know much about these things but, is it a predator call? I would think that most officers would not even comment if you were playing a predator call during the modern deer season. Just probably think you are no threat to the local deer population.

Educate me please!

fox pros are a electric predator call, you can pull out the micro SD card and program them to have any call you want on them. I personaly have over 50 calls for mine. I do have deer in distress but no normal deer call and I program mine for what I am going after that day. I would hope that as long as you do not have buck grunts or doe bleats on the call that they would not bug you about it..

flysar · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2011, 09:06:50 AM »

The WDFW Enforcement Captain from Yakima called me yesterday, appologized for the late return call, and said that while having or using an electronic call might raise suspicion from one of his officers the burdon of proof lies with their office and he nor his officers want to bring "skinny" cases in front of a judge and look like fools.

We discussed different circumstances, bottom line, if I used an electronic call to assist in harvesting a deer that would be illegal, as written in the regs. Having a call or using it to call predators on a stand and then while walking in or out and seeing/harvesting a deer is legal. Harvesting a deer after a calling stand might be questionable because was that deer coming to the call even though the hunter was in the process of walking out; use your best judgement.

I thanked him for his call and informed him that it might be a good idea to pass this info along to other WDFW offices and enforcement officers so hunters would not hear regulation conflicting information.

bearpaw · « **Reply #14 on:** November 02, 2011, 03:29:06 PM »

Quote from: flysar on October 26, 2011, 09:06:50 AM

The WDFW Enforcement Captain from Yakima called me yesterday, appologized for the late return call, and said that while having or using an electronic call might raise suspicion from one of his officers the burdon of proof lies with their office and he nor his officers want to bring "skinny" cases in front of a judge and look like fools.

We discussed different circumstances, bottom line, if I used an electronic call to assist in harvesting a deer that would be illegal, as written in the regs. Having a call or using it to call predators on a stand and then while walking in or out and seeing/harvesting a deer is legal. Harvesting a deer after a calling stand might be questionable because was that deer coming to the call even though the hunter was in the process of walking out; use your best judgement.

I thanked him for his call and informed him that it might be a good idea to pass this info along to other WDFW offices and enforcement officers so hunters would not hear regulation conflicting information.

Glad to hear you got a good response....

Not sure electronic calls are legal for any predators classified as big game though....

flysar · « **Reply #15 on:** November 02, 2011, 09:39:48 PM »

Glad to hear you got a good response....

Not sure electronic calls are legal for any predators classified as big game though....

[/quote]

Pg 70 para 13 states which animals cannot be hunted using an electronic call.

Deer are the only big game that you cannot hunt using an electronic call.

BOWHUNTER45 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 03, 2011, 07:24:53 AM »

I say BS... unless they actually catch you using it they can not do sheet about it ... all this BS some of us worry about needs to stop ... because you need to look at it in the way they wrote the laws ....if it does not specifically state in the laws its illegal to carry an electronic call while big game hunting then forget about it ...BUT NOW THEY KNOW SO most likely it will be states in next years laws .... if you ever get an attorney for a game violation I guarantee you he will pick there sheet apart

:sry:but I get tired of hearing all these freakin rules they have .....

washelkhunter · « **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2011, 09:21:48 PM »

isnt it great. you pay for these peoples livelyhood so they can go out and try to rob you of yours

windygorge · « **Reply #18 on:** December 16, 2011, 01:14:42 PM »

Quote from: BOWHUNTER45 on November 03, 2011, 07:24:53 AM

I say BS... unless they actually catch you using it they can not do sheet about it ... all this BS some of us worry about needs to stop ... because you need to look at it in the way they wrote the laws ....if it does not specifically state in the laws its illegal to carry an electronic call while big game hunting then forget about it ...BUT NOW THEY KNOW SO most likely it will be states in next years laws .... if you ever get an attorney for a game violation I guarantee you he will pick there sheet apart :sry:but I get tired of hearing all these freakin rules they have .....

you go bowhunter. i have always said that. most of it is what people were brought up doing. read the blank edy blank blank regs!! problem solved

windygorge · « **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2011, 01:23:33 PM »

page 70/#13, Using decoys and calls. illegal to hunt WHILE USING for waterfowl, turkey, and deer. ONLY. no other game animal is mentioned. stop worrying about it and go kill chit

steeleywhopper · « **Reply #20 on:** December 24, 2011, 07:35:51 AM »

In the eyes of this state you are guilty until proven innocent.

Houndhunter · « **Reply #21 on:** December 24, 2011, 08:55:37 AM »

I got a ticket for "hunting" when I had no gun or even a knife on me. I have a hard time not giving lip when I run into a gamie, especially when they approach you with foul language and start accusing you of crimes. I know you could get alot dropped in court, but the right gamie will ticket you quick as *censored* for having a electronic call while deer hunting. Just having it in the rig they can still ticket you, all they'll say is prove it in court and hand you your ticket. I'd like to be able to have a rifle in my rig for bear while I'm bow hunting Sept, but I dont want to risk loosing my gun.

gotshot · « **Reply #22 on:** December 24, 2011, 09:37:23 AM »

I had my foxpro in my truck while deer hunting this year and got checked by a gammie. Luckily it was in a backpack in the back seat. I brought it for predators in case I got bored but unfortunantly it came with some deer calls on it. Got lucky, not gonna bring it any more.

Knocker of rocks · « **Reply #23 on:** December 24, 2011, 08:00:18 PM »

Quote from: Houndhunter on December 24, 2011, 08:55:37 AM

I got a ticket for "hunting" when I had no gun or even a knife on me.

How does that happen?

Quote from: Houndhunter on December 24, 2011, 08:55:37 AM

I have a hard time not giving lip when I run into a gamie

Never mind

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Author Topic: WDFW Presumption of Guilt while Hunting - Frustration! (Read 7096 times)

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