nile paper says muck's shot 140+/- deer last weekend?

[PlateauNDN]

I was referring to Sovereignty Issues and through all your research you're telling me you never came upon any paperwork that showed you this?  We are allowed to prosecute up to Gross Misdemeanors and everything above that statute is turned over to the Feds and prosecuted through Federal Court.  If you are guilty in Federal Court you do Federal Prison, Misd's and below you do Tribal Jail.

We are treated as a Sovereign Nation, why do you think we have to report to the Federal Government and not the State.  There is no in between, when States or the Govt. want to deal with the Tribe they deal with the Tribal Council on a Government-to-Government basis.  Why do you think the Govt. has the final say in what we do.

Please quit....The tribes are not treated as a sovereign nation....  I don't have a nation status to compare the relationship, but it does not seem like a sovereign nation to me.
 
Here is a definition from the web;
The supreme, absolute, and uncontrollable power by which an independent state is governed and from which all specific political powers are derived; the intentional independence of a state, combined with the right and power of regulating its internal affairs without foreign interference.
Sovereignty is the power of a state to do everything necessary to govern itself, such as making, executing, and applying laws; imposing and collecting taxes; making war and peace; and forming treaties or engaging in commerce with foreign nations. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sovereign+nation
 
 
You are using US made american cash in your daily transactions, you have no border control, you have no trade tarrifs of trade arrangements with the US and rather ignore our tax laws, we come in and put out your fires on tribal lands, the sheriff will make and arrest and prosecute felonies...etc...etc...etc... 
 
My point is, you are not a Sovereign nation so lets not call it that...
 
 
EDIT, just found it:   Domestic Dependent Nation
 
Tribal sovereignty in the United States refers to the inherent authority of indigenous tribes to govern themselves within the borders of the United States of America. The federal government recognizes tribal nations as "domestic dependent nations" and has established a number of laws attempting to clarify the relationship between the federal, state, and tribal governments. The Constitution and later federal laws grant local sovereignty to tribal nations, yet do not grant full sovereignty equivalent to foreign nations, hence the term "domestic dependent nations".

Really Iceman?  So when you ask nicely in an appropriate manner it's okay but when I did the same thing back in the spring I was told to "grow a pair" or "if I don't like it then don't read it" or...I can go on with what was said but since you are asking, no ridicule?  That's okay I'm not going to stoop that low and ridicule you for your request.

As long as the US GOVERNMENT recognizes the Tribes as SOVEREIGN NATIONS' I'm going to refer to myself and the Tribes as SOVEREIGN and whether you like it or not it doesn't matter to me.  And like you told me back in the spring just because I can cut and paste doesn't mean its true or facts anybody can cut and paste.

The difference between you and me is I live and breathe who I am and I'm a Yakama and proud of it.  I was born and raised here and with the exception of the last couple of years and the time spent away in the Marines I've lived here all my life.  I didn't need to take some class in college on Indian Studies to know who or what I am, I know what and who I am because my grandparents taught me that and just like them I'm teaching my children the same.  Just because you THINK you know, "but it does not seem like a sovereign nation to me" doesn't mean you do know. 

As long as cases the Federal Govt. supports and says we are SOVEREIGN then I will identify us as such.  Here I'll cut and paste for you from some notes I have regarding SOVEREIGNTY ISSUES.

The United States v. Kagama, 118 U.S. 375, 381-82 (1886) Supreme Court of the US.

"[Indian Tribes] were, and always have been, regardes as having a semi-indepenent position when they preserved their tribal relations...as a separate people, with the power of regulating their internal and social relations, and thus far not brought under the laws of the Union or the State within whose limits they resided.

Indian Tribes ceded millions of acres that make the United States what it is today; in return, Tribes received the guarantee that the Federal Government would protect the Tribes' rights to govern their own people and their reservations as homelands for Tribal Cultures, religions, languages, and ways of life."

Commerce, because we use US Currency means we're not Sovereign.  Well, a lot of countries use US Currency does that mean they are not their own Nations?  No.

We use what we have and that's guaranteed by the US Govt.

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3, of the US Constitution empowers Congress "to regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among several States, and with the Indian Tribes."

President Nixon re-affirmed our Rights to Self-Determination in a speech to Congress, "Tribal Self-Determination is by far the most successful Federal Indian Policy in our Nation's history."

We can go back and forth if you'd like but at the end of the day just because you said it doesn't make it the Law of the Land and the Federal Govt. isn't going to change any time soon so as long as the Recognition is there by them, then the Tribes are still going to be SOVEREIGN and all we are going to have accomplished is bickering and complaining rather than finding solutions to the problems at hand.

[igotbigbulls]

well put plat.

[whiteeyes]

 

[Coastal_native]

well put indeed.

[Ddog73]

 

[Austrian Hunter]

x 10 

[colockumelk]

well put indeed.

I promised I wouldn't do this but you leave me no choice. We need to start talking about the buck:doe ratio. 

[Coastal_native]

well put indeed.

I promised I wouldn't do this but you leave me no choice. We need to start talking about the buck:doe ratio.

Moving on to deer now huh?  So what should we expect from you this time...another research paper, or perhaps another celebrity guest appearance in the Yakima paper?  With your extensive knowledge of ratios you might even qualify for one of those shows on the Discovery Channel..."Colockumelk's Wide World of Ratios"...

The only probelm I see is that I doubt people are going to want to see you in a mid-thigh high pair of cargo shorts...but on the other hand it might be entertaining if you were getting eaten by a giant snake...which would also be a great time for you to point out the ratio of how much of your body is sticking out of the snakes mouth compared to how much is being digested...Are you looking for a publicist?

[colockumelk]

My shorts would he so short there wouldn't be room for cargo pockets.  Think of LT Dengle from Reno 911. But shorter.   

[724wd]

The difference between you and me is I live and breathe who I am and I'm a Yakama and proud of it.  I was born and raised here and with the exception of the last couple of years and the time spent away in the Marines I've lived here all my life.  I didn't need to take some class in college on Indian Studies to know who or what I am, I know what and who I am because my grandparents taught me that and just like them I'm teaching my children the same.  Just because you THINK you know, "but it does not seem like a sovereign nation to me" doesn't mean you do know. 

that's great plat, be a proud yakama!    I was born and raised in this state, too.  never left.  lived here all my life.  this paragraph sounds a lot like you beating your chest and shouting "I'M YAKAMA, HEAR ME ROAR!"    

We can go back and forth if you'd like but at the end of the day just because you said it doesn't make it the Law of the Land and the Federal Govt. isn't going to change any time soon so as long as the Recognition is there by them, then the Tribes are still going to be SOVEREIGN and all we are going to have accomplished is bickering and complaining rather than finding solutions to the problems at hand.

and we have gone back and forth.  so far the indians on this site proclaim to do everything they can to keep things the way they are, yourself included.  problem areas have been discussed, but solutions from the indian members are few and far between.  when the non-indians propose a change, the stonewalling with the treaty begins anew.  until indians accept there is a problem with the way the treaties and/or big game regulations are administered, there will be no end.

WHO'S READY FOR ROUND 496?     

[TwoFeet]

I can't believe this worthless thread hasn't already been blocked...  The BS I see written here makes me sick to my stomach.   

[PlateauNDN]

724, if that's what you believe then okay.  I beg to differ on your comment,

"so far the indians on this site proclaim to do everything they can to keep things the way they are, yourself included.  problem areas have been discussed, but solutions from the indian members are few and far between.  when the non-indians propose a change, the stonewalling with the treaty begins anew.  until indians accept there is a problem with the way the treaties and/or big game regulations are administered, there will be no end."

When have I ever stated I wanted to keep things the way they are?  Not once, I've stated many times, "as long as I'm breathing I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure the Treaty isn't abolished" but not once have I stated things remain the same.  I've stated numerous times that things should be reviewed and updated as needed and somethings should be changed to better regulate the harvest.

I've also stated that I am in no position of authority (Tribal Council) to make those changes and as far as I know nobody else on here is either.  We didn't create, write or have a say in anything currently in the books but we do have a say now as to how things should be changed. 

I for one have voiced my distaste for the overharvesting of animals such as 9 bulls in one year or dumping salmon by the truckloads to rot.  Do I know firsthand or witnessed the salmon wastage?  No, I only know what I hear and until there is some proof, (i.e. video or pictures) then it is only speculation.  Do I see the overharvesting of elk?  Yes and No, do I agree with what they are doing, no I don't but as long as it's legal then there is nothing that can be done.

I to thought this thread was put to bed but it hasn't been.  TwoFeet if you believe it's BS then why read it?

[igotbigbulls]

he apparently like to be sick to his stomach.

[igotbigbulls]

of course why put it to bed? just leave it open because another one is bound to pop up soon. 

[724wd]

724, if that's what you believe then okay.  I beg to differ on your comment,

"so far the indians on this site proclaim to do everything they can to keep things the way they are, yourself included.  problem areas have been discussed, but solutions from the indian members are few and far between.  when the non-indians propose a change, the stonewalling with the treaty begins anew.  until indians accept there is a problem with the way the treaties and/or big game regulations are administered, there will be no end."

When have I ever stated I wanted to keep things the way they are?  Not once, I've stated many times, "as long as I'm breathing I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure the Treaty isn't abolished" but not once have I stated things remain the same.  I've stated numerous times that things should be reviewed and updated as needed and somethings should be changed to better regulate the harvest.

I've also stated that I am in no position of authority (Tribal Council) to make those changes and as far as I know nobody else on here is either.  We didn't create, write or have a say in anything currently in the books but we do have a say now as to how things should be changed. 

I for one have voiced my distaste for the overharvesting of animals such as 9 bulls in one year or dumping salmon by the truckloads to rot.  Do I know firsthand or witnessed the salmon wastage?  No, I only know what I hear and until there is some proof, (i.e. video or pictures) then it is only speculation.  Do I see the overharvesting of elk?  Yes and No, do I agree with what they are doing, no I don't but as long as it's legal then there is nothing that can be done.

you're right Plat... i was generalizing.  you and some other indians have come out against wanton waste of game.  I know you're not on the council, just as i'm not a politician, but when you say things like "as it's legal then there is nothing that can be done," well, i don't agree with that.  in fact, it seems a bit contradictory following your statement "but we do have a say now as to how things should be changed."  ok, so what changes can we agree on?  I say the treaties should be amended to say tribal members must abide by the WDFW regulations.  Exceptions being:  ceremonial harvest (marriage/birth/death - contact WDFW liasion to procure ceremonial tag) and the opportunity to kill additional animals for elderly family members unable to hunt themselves (with purchase of tag - perhaps at a reduced rate?).  what do you say plat? 

i know some people get all riled up about these threads (on both sides) but i think they're a great tool to open communication regarding the interaction between indians and the rest of us!  i appreciate the constructive comments from plat, YAK, and yes, at times, even you, bigbulls!     some of you guys also have decent senses of humor and can put up with clock!    

heath