nile paper says muck's shot 140+/- deer last weekend?

[Odell]

Hey guys, I'm new but just waded through every page of this thread. I would bet that every hunter on this site would love to see every non-native poacher punished severely. We are in agreement with you that non-native poaching is a HUGE problem, we hate it, and we want to see it stopped.

Both of you, (igotbigbulls, and Ddog73) have stated that the tribal members who violate rules get "in trouble". I like proof just like you guys do, so could you please provide proof of the level of "trouble" that violators get? For example, what happened to the guys who shot the bull in Enumclaw?

Thanks!

[igotbigbulls]

that specific example i know nothing about. but as i said before in an earlier post i know ones who have poached and here are penalties from our tribe.

FEDERAL AUTHORIZATION
All Tribal police officers assigned as game wardens must be able to meet, within one year of appointment, all requirements imposed by contracts with the federal government.
AUTHORITY TO ENTER PRIVATE LANDS
A Tribal police officer may, in the course of his duties, enter and remain on, while performing his duties, any lands or waters on the Reservation or any off-reservation lands or waters in which the Tribes have treaty hunting, trapping or fishing rights. Any such action by a warden or officer shall not constitute trespass.
SEIZURE
Tribal police officer may seize without warrant:
Any birds, mammals or fish, including parts, taken, killed, transported or possessed, contrary to this Code or any rules or regulations of the Commission; and
Any dog, gun, trap, net, seine, decoy, bait, boat, light, fishing tackle, motor vehicle or other device used in unlawful hunting, fishing or trapping or held with the intent to use in unlawful hunting, fishing or trapping.
The Tribal police officer who seizes personal property shall issue to the person, from whom it is seized, a receipt listing the serial number of any firearm seized and describing any other property seized. Each officer shall maintain a complete record of all property and wildlife seized, which describes each item and identifies its disposition. Any property seized shall not be disposed of except pursuant to the order of the Court.
HEARINGS AND TRIALS
The Court shall conduct hearings and trials for violations of this Code pursuant to the Tribes' rules of criminal or civil procedure depending on whether the violation imposes a criminal or civil penalty.
PENALTIES
CIVIL OFFENSES
Any person subject to civil jurisdiction of the Tribes who is charged with an offense under this Code, whether as an infraction or a crime, shall be subject to the procedures and remedies provided by this Code and other Tribal Civil laws.
Any violation of this Code or of a regulation adopted pursuant to this Code is a civil offense unless specifically limited to a criminal offense only.
For a civil offense the Court may:
Impose a fine of not less than $25.00 or more than $25,000 per violations
Exclude the person from the Reservation;
Suspend, confiscate or permanently revoke any Tribal hunting or fishing licenses or permits or identity cards issued by the Tribes, including the suspension or permanent revocation of a Tribal Member's aboriginal or treaty right to hunt or fish;
Forfeiture as defined by this Code, or
Any combination of the above.
CRIMINAL OFFENSES
Any person subject to the criminal jurisdiction of the Tribes who is charged with a criminal offense under this Code shall be prosecuted under Tribal criminal law and procedure and, if found guilty, penalized as a criminal offender.
FORFEITURES
The Court may subject to forfeiture, by court order, any contraband wildlife, or any personal property used in the commission of a violation and seized by the Tribal police, including, but not limited to, motor vehicles, watercraft, hunting rifles and gear, and fishing gear.
At the time any contraband wildlife or any personal property is seized, the game warden or Tribal police shall issue to the owner a field citation and notice of intent to forfeit which shall contain, at a minimum, the following information:
A date, no more than thirty (30) days after the date of seizure, on which the owner may appear in Court to contest the validity of the seizure and the intended forfeiture;
A statement that the owner's failure to appear on the date may constitute automatic grounds for forfeiture of the seized wildlife or personal property; and
A statement that the owner may be granted a continuance by the Court in order to adequately prepare his case.
If the owner of any seized contraband or personal property is unknown, the Court shall publish a notice of forfeiture in the Tribal newspaper for two (2) issues or, if the Tribal newspaper is unavailable, in any newspaper of general circulation in Umatilla County for four (4) successive issues, describing with specificity the contraband or personal property seized, and stating that the owner has fifteen (15) days from the last date of publication to appear at a hearing before the Court to contest the seizure and forfeiture.
After the hearing, the Court may forfeit the contraband or personal property. However, if no owner appears within fifteen (15) days following the last date of publication of the notice, the contraband or personal property is forfeited automatically,
REWARDS FOR ARREST AND CONVICTION
If funds are available and budgeted, the Commission may offer monetary rewards for information leading to the arrest and conviction of any person violating this Code.

[PlateauNDN]

Ours is pretty similar to that as well not word for word but close.

[Ddog73]

The guy with the wrong tag got 1000 fine and hunting privileges were lost for one year. The kids who shot the elk were never prosecuted wasn't enough evidence

[Yak-NDN]

Do we have any Law enforcement on the site that knows for sure I have been stopped by Fish and Game many times I have never had any problem. I try not to break and laws.

Ok I'll admit it's been awhile since I've been to the CHC and yes I love their popcorn.  The last movie I seen there was Hangover 2 and I love the sunday brunch although it's been a few months since I've had it.  Again, Yak don't judge me based off the little bit of knowledge you have of me, I haven't presumed to know anything or proclaim anything about you so if you can't show the same courtesy then don't expect any back from me.  As I've stated before I was born and raised here graduated school here (not the Tribal School) and only left when I was in the Marines but came back and still work for the Tribe.  Just because I chose to live off it at the time to be closer to work doesn't mean it gives you free will to banter and slander.  I'm not going to get into a pissing match to see who's more Native, that's a little childish in my opinion.

Since you were not active when I started here you might have missed the fact that I mentioned my prior Law Enforcement experience is over 5 years and majority with the Tribe.  While in the Ceded Areas ALL TRIBAL MEMBERS must have IDENTIFICATION.  The Yakama Nation has exclusive jurisdiction over Yakama Members and Tribal Law SUPERCEDES State Law.

They can stop and detain for Tribal Police if they believe a crime has been committed.  I, for one have never had a bad experience with State Game Officers or any Wildlife Officials other than them checking for any violations.  One might have been a little upset because he didn't find nothing one time and wasn't happy that I had the correct answers to his questions about fishing in a certain area but left and still said a courtesy remark as he was leaving.

Ok OK calm down Im sorry I have a bad habit to stir up crap. And ya I have not seen all your posts because I took a leave of absence from the site for almost a year.

[colockumelk]

The guy with the wrong tag got 1000 fine and hunting privileges were lost for one year. The kids who shot the elk were never prosecuted wasn't enough evidence

So basically a slap on the wrist. The contention is not that there are not rules set in place, its just that they are not really enforced and if they are enforced they get a slap on the wrist.  What is in place to dissuade members from breaking the rules?

[Ddog73]

The guy with the wrong tag got 1000 fine and hunting privileges were lost for one year. The kids who shot the elk were never prosecuted wasn't enough evidence

So basically a slap on the wrist. The contention is not that there are not rules set in place, its just that they are not really enforced and if they are enforced they get a slap on the wrist.  What is in place to dissuade members from breaking the rules?

I don't have an extra 1000 laying around, punished is punished your not happy with that.

[colockumelk]

Well if I were to do the same thing it would be a Class C Felony, I would lose my hunting priveleges for LIFE, and face up to 5 years in jail and up to a $51,000 dollar fine.  So yeah he got a slap in the wrist.  But then again it goes back to the equality thing and discrimination. 

You want to know what would REALLY make all of us happy? If things were equal and if caught doing the same crime you would do the same time.  And please I can't wait to hear a quality response to this question.   Why do you think that its okay for a tribal member to get a much lower punishment than an American caught doing the same crime?  Is this not discrimination?  If you think its okay then why do you think discirmination is okay??

[sirmissalot]

Well if I were to do the same thing it would be a Class C Felony, I would lose my hunting priveleges for LIFE, and face up to 5 years in jail and up to a $51,000 dollar fine.  So yeah he got a slap in the wrist.  But then again it goes back to the equality thing and discrimination. 

You want to know what would REALLY make all of us happy? If things were equal and if caught doing the same crime you would do the same time.  And please I can't wait to hear a quality response to this question.   Why do you think that its okay for a tribal member to get a much lower punishment than an American caught doing the same crime?  Is this not discrimination?  If you think its okay then why do you think discirmination is okay??

Exactly. We are finally getting somewhere with all this arguing... well said my man

[Yak-NDN]

Well if I were to do the same thing it would be a Class C Felony, I would lose my hunting priveleges for LIFE, and face up to 5 years in jail and up to a $51,000 dollar fine.  So yeah he got a slap in the wrist.  But then again it goes back to the equality thing and discrimination. 

You want to know what would REALLY make all of us happy? If things were equal and if caught doing the same crime you would do the same time.  And please I can't wait to hear a quality response to this question.   Why do you think that its okay for a tribal member to get a much lower punishment than an American caught doing the same crime?  Is this not discrimination?  If you think its okay then why do you think discirmination is okay??

I don't think its ok but that's the way it is.  Maybe they should change your fines so you could be in common with the Native Americans of the United States. SO is it discrimination because Washington's fines are not the same as Oregon? Are we not all Americans? Or are you Immigrant Americans from Oregon, Immigrant Americans from Washington and Native Americans from Yakama Reservation of the United States?

[FC]

Well if I were to do the same thing it would be a Class C Felony, I would lose my hunting priveleges for LIFE, and face up to 5 years in jail and up to a $51,000 dollar fine.  So yeah he got a slap in the wrist.  But then again it goes back to the equality thing and discrimination. 

You want to know what would REALLY make all of us happy? If things were equal and if caught doing the same crime you would do the same time.  And please I can't wait to hear a quality response to this question.   Why do you think that its okay for a tribal member to get a much lower punishment than an American caught doing the same crime?  Is this not discrimination?  If you think its okay then why do you think discirmination is okay??

I was wondering how long it was going to take for someone to provide the appropriate response! A $1000 fine isn't even a slap on the wrist by comparison and hardly a deterrent.

Nice sidestep Yak!

You know as well as we do that poachers are almost certainly never caught more than a small fraction of the time. If the worst you have to face is a $1000 fine for getting caught IF your tribe prosecutes  (highly unlikely) that isn't much of a deterrent. If you had a very real probability of spending 5 years in the sh!thouse, a $51,000 fine AND lost your hunting privileges for life? THAT is a deterrent!

[igotbigbulls]

i think that the animals were all tagged but because he didnt go through the right process in getting the name changed that the punishment fit the crime. i know lots of non tribal members that fill the tags of there family for them. so dont act all holier than thou and your fines or punishments are worse then tribal hunters. its a joke to think you would even put a comment on here like that colock. we can be kicked off our reservation and lose our hunting rights too. i posted some of the punishments to hunting crimes earlier. are those not stiff enough penalties.

[Ddog73]

Well if I were to do the same thing it would be a Class C Felony, I would lose my hunting priveleges for LIFE, and face up to 5 years in jail and up to a $51,000 dollar fine.  So yeah he got a slap in the wrist.  But then again it goes back to the equality thing and discrimination. 

You want to know what would REALLY make all of us happy? If things were equal and if caught doing the same crime you would do the same time.  And please I can't wait to hear a quality response to this question.   Why do you think that its okay for a tribal member to get a much lower punishment than an American caught doing the same crime?  Is this not discrimination?  If you think its okay then why do you think discirmination is okay??

Don't drag me into the debate over discrimination, they asked what happened to the violater and i provided the information I know.

[FC]

posted some of the punishments to hunting crimes earlier. are those not stiff enough penalties.

No.

i know lots of non tribal members that fill the tags of there family for them.

Unless it’s for a handicapped person or some such and done with a special permit that is called “party hunting” aka poaching.

we can be kicked off our reservation and lose our hunting rights too.

Can you by chance cite for us the last time either one of those things actually happened? If you like I am sure we can post up plenty of particularly nasty cases of tribal poaching for you to match them up with.

[igotbigbulls]

and the pendulum goes back and forth. oh well. yeah i can tell you a cousin of mine has had his hunting rights taken away for poaching. it does happen never said it doesnt. just quit pointing fingers when you guys do the same things and get away with it as well. way more than tribal members. you know thats a fact. you all know the stats of what tribal hunters harvest give or take a percentage or two. thats from your state wildlife department. do you not believe those numbers?  bottom line. we will continue to hunt and you will continue to be upset because its not fair in your eyes. the penalties are what they are. nothing we do will be good enough....unless its done your way.
oh and your comment about posting nasty cases of poaching. go ahead. i witnessed the so called way state hunters hunt a couple weeks ago and it was apalling and scary to think thats what you call hunting. trucks parked every 100 yards along a 2 mile strecth of road on a ridge. spread out flushing out the game who doesnt have a chance with all them rifles pointing at em.