nile paper says muck's shot 140+/- deer last weekend?

[igotbigbulls]

hey! i resemble that remark. im fairly new to these issues and threads. so im learning. i actually had no idea coming on here to look at hunting stories and such that tribal hunting was such a hot topic. that is the honest truth. so i am taken back at some of the comments that have lead me to retaliate. but i am for sure trying to get better at open and constructive talk between the differences.

[colockumelk]

Hey if you guys want to talk about me wearing booty shorts again I'm all for it. I know Coastal doesn't mind. Any takers. 

[longknife]

hey! i resemble that remark. im fairly new to these issues and threads. so im learning. i actually had no idea coming on here to look at hunting stories and such that tribal hunting was such a hot topic. that is the honest truth. so i am taken back at some of the comments that have lead me to retaliate. but i am for sure trying to get better at open and constructive talk between the differences.

So now that its such a bigger topic than you thought, why cant you talk with tribal council, and let them know whats happening, and why its such a big topic. You guys say your not on the board, but wont discuss the solutions to them either?

A great starting point between both of us, for equality....

[ICEMAN]

hey! i resemble that remark. im fairly new to these issues and threads. so im learning. i actually had no idea coming on here to look at hunting stories and such that tribal hunting was such a hot topic. that is the honest truth. so i am taken back at some of the comments that have lead me to retaliate. but i am for sure trying to get better at open and constructive talk between the differences.

It is a hot topic.
 
The problem as I see it is that tribal guys have no problem proudly claiming to have a tie to this area, and a hunting heritage. How is this any different than any other hunter here? Most of us grew up here as you have. Our mommas and daddies had babies in this state and we are the result, I am the result. I have a hunting heritage that goes back generations here, but my heritage is threatened every single session of the legislature.   I am a native Washingtonian.
 
The tribal members seem to pound their chests about their heritage, their ties to the land, at everyone elses expense.
 
I too would like to harvest for my family irregardless of the season setting by others. I too would like to hunt for an elder neighbor who is down on their luck. But I cannot. I am getting forced out of the woods. My deer hunt is a few weekends long with page after page of regulation. Tribal hunters claim to be hunting for meat but often seem to take the trophy animals with the intent (IMHO) to rub their kills in the faces of Non-tribal hunters. 

 
Would you tribal guys give up your hunting heritage for the survival of the herds? We are forced to, irregardless of who is causing the decline. 
 

[colockumelk]

Well said Ice. Especially the last part. One response is our government has placed these hunting regs on us. Yes they have but for management and to continue the species. The only sacrifice I see in Central Washington is done my Americans. I don't see the tribes doing a single thing or sacrificing anything to help out. That is my biggest beef. The fact that all they do is take take take and never give anything in return. (I'm speaking about the Yakamas not the pacific tribes. ) The next time you shoot an elk you should thank all of us that buy licenses because our money pays for that elk and is why we still have elk.

And yes I know non of you are on the council. But I can still talk about the problems that exist.

[igotbigbulls]

in response to longknife. trust me in that i have already started talks about this issue and it has not been well recieved in the circle of hunters and elders i have talked to because the treaty is the contract made. not saying i am going to quit talking about the issues i see on here because some of the points were taken into consideration to think about. now i hunt mostly oregon and have not really had to deal with this issue as we see and talk to many hunters there that dont seem to have quite the same issues. not sure why or if its just one of those things i was naive to. but i also hunt a small part of SE washington and that seems to be a big issue to some.

[Arteman]

Wow, okay well I just read this all, talk about cheap entertainment!  All I really would like to say to the natives is your welcome, your welcome in a since that me and thousands of other Washington hunters abide by scientifically researched based laws that are set to protect the wildlife herds and fish stocks so that you can hunt or slaughter at free will whatever you choose any never run out of these resources to do so.  Could anybody imagine what would happen to our wildlife resources if we all had these same hunting privileges.  You act like your ancestors were the only people that hunted to survive, I'm sure our early settlers didn't have to go purchase a tag to put meat on the table.  Only in time as we become more civilized we realized we had to have laws set to protect these resources for the future.  Now you still talk like you need these hunting privileges to survive?  Come on, there is this thing called money... you make it with a job... There is a grocery store around every corner that sales lots of food in it.  Nobody needs 3 deer and a elk every year to survive, hunting is a privilege this day and age, not a necessity.  Not saying the natives on this thread are thrill killers, and taking full advantage of their laws to break our laws, but I do remember some time back when a bunch of natives went up Spirit Lake Highway by My. St. Helens and shot up a bunch of elk and leaving half of them laying dead or all shot up and dying and a lot of locals were ready to go back on their old customs and start their own lynch mob.  All I'm saying is seriously get with the program, we don't play with rocks and sticks anymore.  We all have to move forward sometime, its called progress.  Laws change with progress, hell in my last contract with work they tossed in a no cell phone policy, do you think there was a no cell phone policy 20 years ago?  You know... I however do have a good example of basically what you natives get away with now.  When our settlers came and slaughtered all the buffalo for there hides because they could at free will, I'm sure your ancestors sat in there huts bi tchn about us settlers killing chit for no apparent reason.  Only now its on the flip side.

[hunterrcc]

Also I will take pics off the showoff indians who will be out in full force this weekend. anybody on here should take pics to get there faces on the internet as bad guys. 1 gamie had stopped some indians just west of whistlin jacks going back to the westside with elk and deer in back. .this was sunday evening/night. Us whiteguys who hunt over here are fed up with the terrible numbers. We are blaming it partly on the muckleshoots. 

I agree this is BS if the indians continue to shoot anything and everything with no rules then there will be nothing left pretty soon for anyone.  This treaty BS needs to end this is not what the treaty was suppose to do.  I watched indians driving around in jeans, tennis shoes and tshirts in their red ford bronoc in the firing center this last weekend when the wind was so fricking cold u had to have a jacket on in the moring if you got out and hunted at all.  They get out and free hand shoot at deer over 300 yards away.  I was watching the deer in my spotting scope until these aholes drove up and started shooting at them.  and then ask for my help where they ran to and if they hit them.  No joke never walked out to see if there was blood just drove off.  Asked the wrong person for help...prefect example of all my indian experinces hunting...

[Coastal_native]

scientifically researched based laws 

I have no beef with you Arteman, but I thought I'd pull this quote out, as most of what you've said has already been argued to no avail.  I don't think "scientifically researched based laws" are anything to brag about these days.  If there's one thing we've learned its that western science can lead to predetermined conclusions.  There's too many examples of scientific research being influenced by personal beliefs.  Tell me the answer you want and I'll use scientific methods to get it for you.  I'd love to see a wolf recovery plan that was developed by scientists hired by defenders of wildlife.
 
Anyway, I would say most tribes have "scientifically researched based laws".  I thought it was the scientifically researched based laws of WDFW that everyone is always complaining about on this site.

[Arteman]

most of what you've said has already been argued to no avail. 

Your right, and we can sit here and argue tell we are all blue in face but non of us have the authority to make a change.  We can start a thread about Fords and Chevys and get about the same results.  Maybe some day the high ups from both parties can meet on common ground, but until then we should just get back to congratulating people on their hunts, but or coarse we do have a few more days off until we can hit the woods again.

[igotbigbulls]

Posted by: Arteman
« on: Yesterday at 10:57:06 PM » Insert Quote
Wow, okay well I just read this all, talk about cheap entertainment!  All I really would like to say to the natives is your welcome, your welcome in a since that me and thousands of other Washington hunters abide by scientifically researched based laws that are set to protect the wildlife herds and fish stocks so that you can hunt or slaughter at free will whatever you choose any never run out of these resources to do so.  Could anybody imagine what would happen to our wildlife resources if we all had these same hunting privileges.  You act like your ancestors were the only people that hunted to survive, I'm sure our early settlers didn't have to go purchase a tag to put meat on the table.  Only in time as we become more civilized we realized we had to have laws set to protect these resources for the future.  Now you still talk like you need these hunting privileges to survive?  Come on, there is this thing called money... you make it with a job... There is a grocery store around every corner that sales lots of food in it.  Nobody needs 3 deer and a elk every year to survive, hunting is a privilege this day and age, not a necessity.  Not saying the natives on this thread are thrill killers, and taking full advantage of their laws to break our laws, but I do remember some time back when a bunch of natives went up Spirit Lake Highway by My. St. Helens and shot up a bunch of elk and leaving half of them laying dead or all shot up and dying and a lot of locals were ready to go back on their old customs and start their own lynch mob.  All I'm saying is seriously get with the program, we don't play with rocks and sticks anymore.  We all have to move forward sometime, its called progress.  Laws change with progress, hell in my last contract with work they tossed in a no cell phone policy, do you think there was a no cell phone policy 20 years ago?  You know... I however do have a good example of basically what you natives get away with now.  When our settlers came and slaughtered all the buffalo for there hides because they could at free will, I'm sure your ancestors sat in there huts bi tchn about us settlers killing chit for no apparent reason.  Only now its on the flip side.

like i posted earlier that im sure you read is that the herds decline started with european settlement. when there was no regulations.
heres a finding for you-U.S. vs. Washington states, "Indian tribes cannot rescind a treaty agreement or limit non-Indian fishing pursuant to the agreement, but off-reservation fishing by other citizens and residents of the state is not a right but a privilege which may be granted, limited or withdrawn by the state as the interests of the state or exercise of the treaty fishing rights may require."

as decided upon by the courts.
but dont compare the treaty, or other laws to a no cell phone rule that you have to follow.
we have agreed that there is a problem so that should be the main interest to start to tackle. not bickering. as you see there are a lot of rulilngs and laws that have been upheld for years that wont be so easily changed but amendments to laws can be made. thats what it seems like is being pushed for. not saying i disagree on some of these points after what ive read on here.

[Arteman]

I wasn't trying to compare laws and treaties to a no cell phone policy, I'm just stating that during the process of progress and the development of technology over time these things impact are lifestyles and are what we are custom to.  Slowly in time laws adapt to this progress to stay compatible with times, its how its always going to be, rather its laws to protect us or our resources from destruction.  I'm sure there will be laws in the future we couldn't even fathom now.  The people of these this nation as a whole need to do what is right not for us as individual parties but for the land we all share to insure its preserved for future generations after we all long and gone.  I've read all your posts and know you all at least agree to that.  The scientific facts I know has to do with conservation and preservation, if we take from the land more then it can produce we will eliminate its resources.  I agree the WDFW isn't doing all the right things, but it is the best program in place now to protect our wildlife resources, the problem is they are trying to please everybody and make it fair for all walks of life.  They issue so many tags a year its a madhouse out there and clearly not enough resources to satisfy everybody, I think everything should go to permit only so its controlled better, kind of like Oregons eastside, but that includes natives as well.  But because of your native heritage it shouldnt give you the right to be allowed to take more then what is honestly needed.  I'm not racists, and im not native bashing.  The blood runs in my vains as well, my grandmas mother or grandmother was full native Indian, Idk know what nation but it was cleary visible in my grandmother.  What's past is past, right or wrong its behind us now, the future is what we have to look at now and for what it has in store.  We all eat, sleep, breath, and bleed the same, and should enjoy the same equal privileges as individuals.  With all this said, my opinion is like a atom on a nats a$$, it don't mean nothing, just my opinion.  Personally, their are more important issues going on in this country at the moment that needs fixed.  All I can say now is happy hunting to everybody, be safe and enjoy the outdoors that we have now, and hope are grandkids can do the same.

[Coastal_native]

Arteman,

I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't questioning the scientific integrity of the work performed by WDFW staff.  I was only trying to point out the undeniable relationship between science and policy.  Science is the best tool we have available to weigh our impacts on the environment, but we as humans still have the ability to make decisions and influence decisions.

[colockumelk]

I wasn't trying to compare laws and treaties to a no cell phone policy, I'm just stating that during the process of progress and the development of technology over time these things impact are lifestyles and are what we are custom to.  Slowly in time laws adapt to this progress to stay compatible with times, its how its always going to be, rather its laws to protect us or our resources from destruction.  I'm sure there will be laws in the future we couldn't even fathom now.  The people of these this nation as a whole need to do what is right not for us as individual parties but for the land we all share to insure its preserved for future generations after we all long and gone.  I've read all your posts and know you all at least agree to that.  The scientific facts I know has to do with conservation and preservation, if we take from the land more then it can produce we will eliminate its resources.  I agree the WDFW isn't doing all the right things, but it is the best program in place now to protect our wildlife resources, the problem is they are trying to please everybody and make it fair for all walks of life.  They issue so many tags a year its a madhouse out there and clearly not enough resources to satisfy everybody, I think everything should go to permit only so its controlled better, kind of like Oregons eastside, but that includes natives as well.  But because of your native heritage it shouldnt give you the right to be allowed to take more then what is honestly needed.  I'm not racists, and im not native bashing.  The blood runs in my vains as well, my grandmas mother or grandmother was full native Indian, Idk know what nation but it was cleary visible in my grandmother.  What's past is past, right or wrong its behind us now, the future is what we have to look at now and for what it has in store.  We all eat, sleep, breath, and bleed the same, and should enjoy the same equal privileges as individuals.  With all this said, my opinion is like a atom on a nats a$$, it don't mean nothing, just my opinion.  Personally, their are more important issues going on in this country at the moment that needs fixed.  All I can say now is happy hunting to everybody, be safe and enjoy the outdoors that we have now, and hope are grandkids can do the same.

 

Well said Arteman

[Yak-NDN]

Also I will take pics off the showoff indians who will be out in full force this weekend. anybody on here should take pics to get there faces on the internet as bad guys. 1 gamie had stopped some indians just west of whistlin jacks going back to the westside with elk and deer in back. .this was sunday evening/night. Us whiteguys who hunt over here are fed up with the terrible numbers. We are blaming it partly on the muckleshoots. 

I agree this is BS if the indians continue to shoot anything and everything with no rules then there will be nothing left pretty soon for anyone.  This treaty BS needs to end this is not what the treaty was suppose to do.  I watched indians driving around in jeans, tennis shoes and tshirts in their red ford bronoc in the firing center this last weekend when the wind was so fricking cold u had to have a jacket on in the moring if you got out and hunted at all.  They get out and free hand shoot at deer over 300 yards away.  I was watching the deer in my spotting scope until these aholes drove up and started shooting at them.  and then ask for my help where they ran to and if they hit them.  No joke never walked out to see if there was blood just drove off.  Asked the wrong person for help...prefect example of all my indian experinces hunting...

What were their names?