Firsthand from WDFW on firearms while unlicensed

[phishisgroovin]

I just called enforcement officials from WDFW regarding an unlicensed person in the woods while a season is open & carrying a firearm for personal protection due to my nephew not being able to get into the feild testing towards his hunter safety or recieving the deferral in time.

They straight up told me this is an open carry state and as long as they are legal to own and posess a firearm, they are legal to open carry a loaded firearm on their hip or shoulder holster while out hunting with a licensed hunter as long as its soley for personal protection outside of any vehicle, or if they posess a concealed license that they are legal to carry any pistol both open or concealed legally while in the woods with a hunter in camp or on the trail for personal protection regardless of any open season or closed season both insode and outside of their vehicles.

Just passing the information i got from an enforcement officer first hand today..

[Wazukie]

That's pretty much what the law states 

[buglebuster]

What about walking around the woods with a rifle during a season without any license? Is there anything they can really do?

[jeepasaurusrex]

What about catch and release hunting. 


 

[Wazukie]

Catch and release is always a good idea, that way I can hunt all year long.

[FC]

What about walking around the woods with a rifle during a season without any license? Is there anything they can really do?

No and you can carry concealed without a permit when out hiking or any other "lawful outdoor activity" if I remember the verbage correctly.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060

( Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

[cwuwildcat]

What about walking around the woods with a rifle during a season without any license? Is there anything they can really do?

They can hassle you a lot, but unless they see you shooting an animal, or suspect you have, you're nothing more than a well armed hiker.  You might get a ticket, but any attorney would point out that the authorities didn't catch you hunting, they caught you walking with a firearm.  Granted, it would look really suspicious, but tough nuts!

[CAMPMEAT]

First, how did you know they are unlicensed ? 2nd, we have the 2nd amendment right to carry a gun. A licensed hunter, out hunting ? There they go infringing on our rights again. Not giving you the business, but it's a typical response from a WDFW agent. I'm on your side, but geeze, the Game Dept just wants to catch somebody that is carrying a gun and write a ticket. Don't forget, the state is run by democraps and is down the toilet.

[FALFire]

Generally the first thing a Game Officer asks when they contact you is "Are you hunting or Are you fishing" If you say " NO" then they are pretty much left standing there with no grounds to ask you any further questions. If you are asked " Why are you carrying a pistol then? " Simply respond by saying "Because lawfully I can". They can ask for identification just to be certain you are not a convicted felon and that's about it. So be kind, show them your ID let them run your name and thank them for their concern and move on. If you are carrying a rifle and you are contacted regarding Hunting, you can simply state you are fearful of being attacked by Bigfoot or the drug cartel and you carry the rifle for self protection, there is really nothing they can do but perhaps think that you are a nut job and hope they can get out of the area in one piece. Just don't be a smart ass to them, be polite and courteous and thank them for their concern. They have to ask you if you are hunting or fishing so they can take the next step because they are fishing.

You do not need to have a hunting license to carry a firearm in the woods or desert as long as you are NOT pursuing any type of game animal or game bird.

Let them do their job, you be professional and they will likely return the favor.

[Lowedog]

You cannot be carrying a rifle that is .24 or larger caliber in an area that is open for deer or elk if you do not posses the corresponding license for whatever is open. 

I don't know if that pertains to someone who has no hunting license at all though.   

[cwuwildcat]

They can ask for identification just to be certain you are not a convicted felon and that's about it. So be kind, show them your ID let them run your name and thank them for their concern and move on.

They can ask, and you can refuse.  Remember, we aren't their subjects.  Unless you're suspected of having committed, or are about to commit a crime, you are under no obligation to provide id.  This isn't a police state, and it isn't a stop and ID.  They can't pull over cars just to make sure the driver has a license or insurance, and they can't make you give id just to see if you're a felon.

[FALFire]

They can ask for identification just to be certain you are not a convicted felon and that's about it. So be kind, show them your ID let them run your name and thank them for their concern and move on.

They can ask, and you can refuse.  Remember, we aren't their subjects.  Unless you're suspected of having committed, or are about to commit a crime, you are under no obligation to provide id.  This isn't a police state, and it isn't a stop and ID.  They can't pull over cars just to make sure the driver has a license or insurance, and they can't make you give id just to see if you're a felon.

That is why I stated "They can "ASK" I never said they can "DEMAND" to see your ID.

They will, however, ask for it, so be nice and show them, don't be a hard ass they are just doing their job. You don't make any friends when you become a flagrant azzho to LEO. You can deal with it properly and professionally without the " I know my RIGHTS" BS. You are not required to answer any incriminating questions, just be polite and think before you speak!

[FC]

I'm a bit confused, are you saying that stating "thanks I'm not hunting and unless you have some reason to detain me I am off to enjoy my day" is being an azzho to leo?

[pianoman9701]

You cannot be carrying a rifle that is .24 or larger caliber in an area that is open for deer or elk if you do not posses the corresponding license for whatever is open. 

I don't know if that pertains to someone who has no hunting license at all though.   

I think you're incorrect, Lowe. You can carry any legal firearm in the woods with you in WA at any time. License or not, it is legal to be armed in WA. Does this open you up to questioning by LE? Possibly. Do you have to cooperate with them if they ask you to show ID? No, but usually it's advisable to cooperate with a reasonable request from LE.

[FC]

You can "carry" a rifle of any legal caliber in the woods even during a big game season with or without a license but you may not "hunt" a species of small game such as coyotes with anything over 24 caliber during a modern firearm season.

[sirfunkeybut]

my friend was with his buddy in rifle deer season and he had his .270 for coyotes(he arhery hunts) and got stopped by a gamie and they told him if he didn't have a deer tag he couldn't have anything over .24 caliber

You can "carry" a rifle of any legal caliber in the woods even during a big game season with or without a license but you may not "hunt" a species of small game such as coyotes with anything over 24 caliber during a modern firearm season.

[Lowedog]

That is kind of confusing.  I know someone who was cited for having his big game rifle with him while accompanying a friend on and elk hunt because he didn't have an elk tag.  It was his first year hunting and he was unaware and took his rifle for coyotes. 

[pianoman9701]

That is kind of confusing.  I know someone who was cited for having his big game rifle with him while accompanying a friend on and elk hunt because he didn't have an elk tag.  It was his first year hunting and he was unaware and took his rifle for coyotes.

Not confusing at all. If he told the gamie he was out for coyotes without a license, he basically admitted to poaching. You're required to have a hunting license for coyotes in WA. If he had said he wasn't hunting and he had the long gun for personal protection, they couldn't have done a thing unless they caught him in the act of hunting and killing.

[FC]

my friend was with his buddy in rifle deer season and he had his .270 for coyotes(he arhery hunts) and got stopped by a gamie and they told him if he didn't have a deer tag he couldn't have anything over .24 caliber

You can "carry" a rifle of any legal caliber in the woods even during a big game season with or without a license but you may not "hunt" a species of small game such as coyotes with anything over 24 caliber during a modern firearm season.

Like i said, you can "carry" but not "hunt", Lowedog if your friend was stopped and he simply said that he was carrying it for his own protection there wouldn't be a damn thing that they could say or do about it.

Personally I can see why a guy would get a hard time over this but that is the way the law is written.

[sirfunkeybut]

gotcha 

Like i said, you can "carry" but not "hunt", Lowedog if your friend was stopped and he simply said that he was carrying it for his own protection there wouldn't be a damn thing that they could say or do about it.

Personally I can see why a guy would get a hard time over this but that is the way the law is written.
[/quote]

[pianoman9701]

From page 70 of the Big Game Regs:

10. Hunting during modern firearm
deer or elk seasons:
You may not hunt wildlife during any modern
firearm deer or elk season, with any firearm
24 caliber or larger or containing slugs or
buckshot for big game, unless you have a valid
license, permit and tag for one of the following:
deer, elk, black bear, cougar, mountain goat,
bighorn sheep, or moose.

So, if you state or demonstrate that you're hunting coyotes during this time, you have to use something lower than .24. If you're not hunting and the weapon is legal in WA, no problem.

[Lowedog]

Like I said, it was his first year he ever bought a hunting license and deer tag.  He did not have an elk tag in an area that was open for elk.  This was a friends brother in-law.  He was unaware of this law.  Told the officer he brought his rifle for coyotes. 

So the confusing part for me would be that if someone was just out hiking with a rifle with no license at all with the intention of carrying the rifle for protection and it is during a big game season are they breaking the law?

[pianoman9701]

Like I said, it was his first year he ever bought a hunting license and deer tag.  He did not have an elk tag in an area that was open for elk.  This was a friends brother in-law.  He was unaware of this law.  Told the officer he brought his rifle for coyotes. 

So the confusing part for me would be that if someone was just out hiking with a rifle with no license at all with the intention of carrying the rifle for protection and it is during a big game season are they breaking the law?

No, they're not. Doesn't mean they won't attract some attention from gamies or other LE.

[thinkingman]

Like I said, it was his first year he ever bought a hunting license and deer tag.  He did not have an elk tag in an area that was open for elk.  This was a friends brother in-law.  He was unaware of this law.  Told the officer he brought his rifle for coyotes. 

So the confusing part for me would be that if someone was just out hiking with a rifle with no license at all with the intention of carrying the rifle for protection and it is during a big game season are they breaking the law?

SMall game license is all that's required for coyote..either had that or he didn't?

[Lowedog]

He had big game license and deer tag.  Problem is you can't hunt coyote with .24 or larger caliber in an area open for elk or deer if you don't posses the corresponding tag. 

[jeepasaurusrex]

There is a tag for coyotes? 

[pianoman9701]

There is a tag for coyotes? 

No, you need a big game tag if you possess a .24 or larger gun while hunting during the modern firearm deer/elk season. Deer, elk, cougar, goat, sheep, moose, or bear tag.

[Lowedog]

This is getting way off track from the OP.  Just be aware that if you are carrying a big game caliber rifle during a big game season you may be asked to show a license for that season and could be cited if you don't posses that license. 

[FC]

This is getting way off track from the OP.  Just be aware that if you are carrying a big game caliber rifle during a big game season you may be asked to show a license for that season and could be illegaly cited if you don't posses that license.

Fixed that one for ya!

[kglacken]

That's pretty much what the law states 

[cwuwildcat]

They can ask for identification just to be certain you are not a convicted felon and that's about it. So be kind, show them your ID let them run your name and thank them for their concern and move on.

They can ask, and you can refuse.  Remember, we aren't their subjects.  Unless you're suspected of having committed, or are about to commit a crime, you are under no obligation to provide id.  This isn't a police state, and it isn't a stop and ID.  They can't pull over cars just to make sure the driver has a license or insurance, and they can't make you give id just to see if you're a felon.

That is why I stated "They can "ASK" I never said they can "DEMAND" to see your ID.

They will, however, ask for it, so be nice and show them, don't be a hard ass they are just doing their job. You don't make any friends when you become a flagrant azzho to LEO. You can deal with it properly and professionally without the " I know my RIGHTS" BS. You are not required to answer any incriminating questions, just be polite and think before you speak!

Might want to reread what I wrote.  Never indicated you wrote "DEMAND".  Also, I'm not on this earth to make their job easier.  You want to roll over and take it in the rear wanting to be nice, so that they can do something they dont need to do, more power to ya!  I've done nothing wrong, and expect to be treated that way.  They expect me to follow the rules, and I expect them to do the same.  They can ask me, and I expect to politely decline and go my way.  They want to arrest me for doing nothing, I've got an attorney on speed dial.

[jeepasaurusrex]

 

[FALFire]

Bottom line is ....... if you are hunting, you are hunting period just be certain to follow the laws as written in the hunting booklet. That is why they will always ask if you are hunting so they can take it to the next level. If you are NOT hunting you can carry any legal firearm while out joyfully hiking in the woods.

[phishisgroovin]

My original post was in regards to my calling WDFW enforcement and asking about sidearms, hadnt really thought about rifles.
I wanted my Nephew armed for Up close and personal with my .38 giving my Brother in law time to use the Big gun and my Nephew a piece of mind that he wasnt unarmed.

He took the online part of hunter ed, but couldnt line up the field test part in time.

[huntinguy]

Simple solution. Just make sure it is not a legal hunting arm. So hand him a pistol with a barrel less than 4 inches and there can be no complaint. Well, not much of one.

As to the concealed carry without a permit. I know it keeps getting stated that you can. Hunting regulations are different from state law. NO YOU CAN NOT CARRY CONCEALED WITHOUT A PERMIT. I have asked too many lawyers, LEO's and even a judge and they all say you will get free room and board!

Just keep it in plane site and all is good.

[bobcat]

As to the concealed carry without a permit. I know it keeps getting stated that you can. Hunting regulations are different from state law. NO YOU CAN NOT CARRY CONCEALED WITHOUT A PERMIT. I have asked too many lawyers, LEO's and even a judge and they all say you will get free room and board!

Yes you can!  The law was posted previously in this thread. It's been discussed on here many times. Don't believe what law enforcment people tell you. Many of them do not know the law.

[Wile E. Hunter]

No, ya can't. Carrying a concealed weapon is illegal. You can have it concealed if it's unloaded, however. Loaded and concealed? Felony.

Wile E.

[billythekidrock]

That is kind of confusing.  I know someone who was cited for having his big game rifle with him while accompanying a friend on and elk hunt because he didn't have an elk tag.  It was his first year hunting and he was unaware and took his rifle for coyotes. 

I was told that if I had a rifle for bear and my brother had a bow for elk that I could be cited if they could "put me on the elk" in anyway including pushing the elk or directing my brother to the elk. Those actions are considered hunting.
 
I would bet the same would be considered even if two rifle hunters were only glassing elk while one had a rifle elk tag and the other a bear tag. 

[bobcat]

No, ya can't. Carrying a concealed weapon is illegal. You can have it concealed if it's unloaded, however. Loaded and concealed? Felony.

Wile E.

What else can I say other than:                   

[bobcat]

 

RCW 9.41.060 Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.

The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

     (1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, correctional personnel and community corrections officers as long as they are employed as such who have completed government-sponsored law enforcement firearms training and have been subject to a check through the national instant criminal background check system or an equivalent background check within the past five years, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state. Correctional personnel and community corrections officers seeking the waiver provided for by this section are required to pay for any background check that is needed in order to exercise the waiver;

     (2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;

     (3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;

     (4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

     (5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;

     (6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

     (7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

    [8] Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

     (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

     (10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.

[jaymark6655]

  You beat me to it.

[CAMPMEAT]

What happened to our 2nd amendment rights ?

[jaymark6655]

What happened to our 2nd amendment rights ?

What do you mean?  You can carry concealed without a permit if you are out hiking, fishing, hunting and whatever else qualifies as an outdoor activity.

[Fishnclifff]

What happened to our 2nd amendment rights ?

What do you mean?  You can carry concealed without a permit if you are out hiking, fishing, hunting and whatever else qualifies as an outdoor activity.

 

When you are done recreating and get back in yor car---- if you have no CCW, unload yor sidearm  stow it, and drive home---if ya gots a CCW, drive home

[ghosthunter]

What happened to our 2nd amendment rights ?

What do you mean?  You can carry concealed without a permit if you are out hiking, fishing, hunting and whatever else qualifies as an outdoor activity.

 

When you are done recreating and get back in yor car---- if you have no CCW, unload yor sidearm  stow it, and drive home---if ya gots a CCW, drive home

Yikes folks dont add stuff that isnt there. Read the law posted above by bobcat. Read the last sentence in black "is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;
 
As long as you are  traveling to or from you are exempt from the loaded handgun in the truck. You  strap it on loaded drive to your outdoor activity, go for hike ,get back in your ride and drive home. No loading or unloading required ,no permit required.

[scudmaster]

Generally the first thing a Game Officer asks when they contact you is "Are you hunting or Are you fishing" If you say " NO" then they are pretty much left standing there with no grounds to ask you any further questions. If you are asked " Why are you carrying a pistol then? " Simply respond by saying "Because lawfully I can". They can ask for identification just to be certain you are not a convicted felon and that's about it. So be kind, show them your ID let them run your name and thank them for their concern and move on. If you are carrying a rifle and you are contacted regarding Hunting, you can simply state you are fearful of being attacked by Bigfoot or the drug cartel and you carry the rifle for self protection, there is really nothing they can do but perhaps think that you are a nut job and hope they can get out of the area in one piece. Just don't be a smart ass to them, be polite and courteous and thank them for their concern. They have to ask you if you are hunting or fishing so they can take the next step because they are fishing.

You do not need to have a hunting license to carry a firearm in the woods or desert as long as you are NOT pursuing any type of game animal or game bird.

Let them do their job, you be professional and they will likely return the favor.

I would add this, if you are not Hunting or Fishing, there is no obligation for you to provide ID to a game agent, even if you are open carrying.  But if they suspect you are hunting or fishing and it is their professional opinion that will be the decider, then it is their call so tread lightly.

You may need to stop so they can determine if you are hunting and or fishing and or participating in an outdoor recreation.  But the burden of proof is on the Officer. 

Now that being said, if you antagonize too much, it may end up costing you a defense attorney retainer to prove you were right.     As FALFire said, be polite and it will turn out all right.